Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote: > > On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: > >> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote: > >>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote: > >>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up > >>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs): > >>>> > >>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but > >>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair? > >>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to > >>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my > >>> family will starve. > >> > >> That's an interesting concept. I suspect it is not a valid argument > >> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm > >> to yourself and to your family. You can change jobs if nothing else. > >> > >> > >>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a > >>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been > >>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the > >>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but > >>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even > >>>> have those plug in fresheners. > >>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using > >>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the > >>> neighborhood too > >> > >> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your > >> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent. > >> > >> > >>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the > >>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of > >>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not > >>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why > >>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I > >>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, > >>>> sells. > >>>> > >>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of > >>> the population has breathing issues of one type > >>> or another. Asthma especially. > >> > >> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There > >> may be a correlation, but how strong? > >> > > > > I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get > > sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. > > Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your > neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the > modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you > provoke. > > That's how things are.Would you say that if I were your neighbour and regularly made a bonfire of old tyres? -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
OT: alcohol based perfume removal?
Started by ●November 17, 2021
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote:[...]> > I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get > > sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. > > My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be > exaggerating.Most people, you included, have no idea how disruptive and debilitating perfume allergy can be. I cannot use public transport, many shops are out of bounds, on occasions I have had to leave my purchases on the counter and walk out when someone wearing perfume joined the queue behind me. I have twice been invited to appear as a guest speaker at events and then had the invitation cancelled when they discovered I was perfume allergic. In one job, a cleaner thought it would be funny to spray perfume into the laboratory where I worked - I finished up having to climb out of a window onto the roof outside. In another employment I wasn't able to use the toilets until I had gone in with breathing apparatus and disconnected the newly-installed perfume dispenser which the manager kept referring to as a "Fresh air unit". He had installed it in the full knowledge that I was allergic to it, but simply didn't care. I have had to miss planned trips when a passenger got in the van wearing perfume - I had to get out the other side quickly and wouldn't have been fit to drive if I had stayed in there. I have travelled 40 miles to a dance, only to turn round and come home again because someone was wearing overpowering perfume. There is a small group of us that meet regularly to listen to music, I can no longer go to the meetings because a disabled member, who is brought by his carers, always uses perfume. If I suggested that he shouldn't be allowed to come because of the effect his perfume had on me, there would be uproar and charges of discriminiation - but all he has to do to accommodate my disability is just stop wearing the poisonous stuff. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
On 18/11/2021 20.22, Rick C wrote:> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:09:58 PM UTC-4, T wrote: >> On 11/18/21 11:01, Rick C wrote: >>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote: >>>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: >> >>>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There may be a correlation, but how strong? >>>>> >>>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get >>>> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. >>> >>> My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be exaggerating. >>> >> That is a good excuse for not giving a shit about >> what harm your behavior causes your neighbors. > > This is the sort of exaggeration I'm referring to. > > >> And I am not exaggerating. You need to watch helplessly >> as someone you love gasps in terror trying to breath. >> Or maybe have it happen to you. > > You still can't respond to the actual statement I made. > > >> Whatsoever you would have others do unto you, do >> unto them. Have you ever heard of "karma"? > > Here you have gone off the deep end casting me as someone who creates problems for you. You've lost it now. > > The condition is very real. People like you who can't be rational about it and only talk in terms of emotion should stay away from the forefront or others will think we are all like you.Yes, it is real, but it is psychosomatic. Doesn't make it less real. -- Cheers, Carlos.
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:17:22 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote: > > In article <sn4hbr$a16$1...@dont-email.me>, T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > > >To those that are sensitive, your deodorant does > > >bother them, especially Brute. Your hand lotion, > > >hand soap, shampoo, shaving lotion, hand sanitize > > >too. > > Yup. I inherited my mother's sensitivity to a bunch of aromatics - > > orange oil and perfumes are the biggest problems. They give me (and > > her) a really nasty headache, which seems to involve some amount of > > vasoconstriction in the veins or arteries in the skull. I learned at > > a very early age to avoid people wearing perfume, the perfume sections > > of stores, and so forth... "exhale sharply, hold breath, leave the > > area ASAP" is still my recipe 60-some years later. Getting past the > > duty-free area in airports is often a trial. > > I'm surprised that natural scents are an issue. If you are sensitive to>orange oil, can you not handle an orange or eat orange?The problem compound is D-Limonene oxide, which is one of the worst allergens known. Lemon and orange oils contain D-Limonene which slowly oxidises when exposed to air. Fresh fruit presents no danger, but stale rind and oil are quite nasty - a friend of mine lost all the skin off her face when she was exposed to to oxidised limonene. In the US, perfumes containing D-Limonene have to be safety tested straight from and unopened bottle, so they pass the FDA tests. In the UK they can be tested from a bottle which has been opened and then closed again (and they fail the safety tests), but the FDA tests are the ones that are always quoted in the safety leaflets. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
On 11/18/21 11:41, Liz Tuddenham wrote:> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote: >>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: >>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote: >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up >>>>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs): >>>>>> >>>>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but >>>>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair? >>>>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to >>>>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my >>>>> family will starve. >>>> >>>> That's an interesting concept. I suspect it is not a valid argument >>>> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm >>>> to yourself and to your family. You can change jobs if nothing else. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a >>>>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been >>>>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the >>>>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but >>>>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even >>>>>> have those plug in fresheners. >>>>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using >>>>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the >>>>> neighborhood too >>>> >>>> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your >>>> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the >>>>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of >>>>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not >>>>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why >>>>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I >>>>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, >>>>>> sells. >>>>>> >>>>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of >>>>> the population has breathing issues of one type >>>>> or another. Asthma especially. >>>> >>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There >>>> may be a correlation, but how strong? >>>> >>> >>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get >>> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. >> >> Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your >> neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the >> modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you >> provoke. >> >> That's how things are. > > Would you say that if I were your neighbour and regularly made a bonfire > of old tyres? > >And how about after being begged and pleaded with from someone who you routinely put in the emergency room by your callous behavior turned around and charged you with "assault with a deadly weapon"? Would serve you right to spend some time in court and in the grey bar motel.
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
On 11/18/21 11:37, Carlos E.R. wrote:> On 18/11/2021 20.05, T wrote: >> On 11/18/21 11:04, Rick C wrote: >>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote: >>>>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up >>>>>>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs): >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but >>>>>>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the >>>>>>>> chair? >>>>>>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to >>>>>>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my >>>>>>> family will starve. >>>>>> >>>>>> That's an interesting concept. I suspect it is not a valid argument >>>>>> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm >>>>>> to yourself and to your family. You can change jobs if nothing else. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a >>>>>>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been >>>>>>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but >>>>>>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> have those plug in fresheners. >>>>>>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using >>>>>>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the >>>>>>> neighborhood too >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your >>>>>> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the >>>>>>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of >>>>>>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not >>>>>>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why >>>>>>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I >>>>>>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, >>>>>>>> sells. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of >>>>>>> the population has breathing issues of one type >>>>>>> or another. Asthma especially. >>>>>> >>>>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There >>>>>> may be a correlation, but how strong? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get >>>>> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. >>>> Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your >>>> neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself >>>> the >>>> modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance >>>> you >>>> provoke. >>>> >>>> That's how things are. >>> >>> No, that's not how things are. But you have to be able to prove your >>> claims and that is not easy to do in a court using their rules of >>> evidence. It would be a civil case and you have to prove harm and >>> causality. I think proving harm is the hard part, but causality is >>> not going to be easy either. >>> >> >> Would it not be nice if folks were just considerate >> of others? > > The normal thought is that you are simply mad and ignore you, as that > neighbour did with her clothes dryer. >That depends on whether or not the neighbor is a considerate person or an insensitive ass hole.
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:42:08 PM UTC-4, Liz Tuddenham wrote:> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote: > [...] > > > I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get > > > sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. > > > > My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be > > exaggerating. > Most people, you included, have no idea how disruptive and debilitating > perfume allergy can be. I cannot use public transport, many shops are > out of bounds, on occasions I have had to leave my purchases on the > counter and walk out when someone wearing perfume joined the queue > behind me.You seem to also be ignoring the facts I have discussed in my posts. I see you have deleted the relevant portions. Do you even know which facts I was discussing???> I have twice been invited to appear as a guest speaker at events and > then had the invitation cancelled when they discovered I was perfume > allergic. In one job, a cleaner thought it would be funny to spray > perfume into the laboratory where I worked - I finished up having to > climb out of a window onto the roof outside. In another employment I > wasn't able to use the toilets until I had gone in with breathing > apparatus and disconnected the newly-installed perfume dispenser which > the manager kept referring to as a "Fresh air unit". He had installed > it in the full knowledge that I was allergic to it, but simply didn't > care. > > I have had to miss planned trips when a passenger got in the van wearing > perfume - I had to get out the other side quickly and wouldn't have been > fit to drive if I had stayed in there. I have travelled 40 miles to a > dance, only to turn round and come home again because someone was > wearing overpowering perfume. > > There is a small group of us that meet regularly to listen to music, I > can no longer go to the meetings because a disabled member, who is > brought by his carers, always uses perfume. If I suggested that he > shouldn't be allowed to come because of the effect his perfume had on > me, there would be uproar and charges of discriminiation - but all he > has to do to accommodate my disability is just stop wearing the > poisonous stuff.Ok, you refer to this a "poisonous stuff". While you have a very strong reaction, do you believe this fits the definition of "poisonous"? -- Rick C. +++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:48:12 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:> On 18/11/2021 20.22, Rick C wrote: > > On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:09:58 PM UTC-4, T wrote: > >> On 11/18/21 11:01, Rick C wrote: > >>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote: > >>>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: > >> > >>>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There may be a correlation, but how strong? > >>>>> > >>>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get > >>>> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. > >>> > >>> My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be exaggerating. > >>> > >> That is a good excuse for not giving a shit about > >> what harm your behavior causes your neighbors. > > > > This is the sort of exaggeration I'm referring to. > > > > > >> And I am not exaggerating. You need to watch helplessly > >> as someone you love gasps in terror trying to breath. > >> Or maybe have it happen to you. > > > > You still can't respond to the actual statement I made. > > > > > >> Whatsoever you would have others do unto you, do > >> unto them. Have you ever heard of "karma"? > > > > Here you have gone off the deep end casting me as someone who creates problems for you. You've lost it now. > > > > The condition is very real. People like you who can't be rational about it and only talk in terms of emotion should stay away from the forefront or others will think we are all like you. > Yes, it is real, but it is psychosomatic. Doesn't make it less real.It is not psychosomatic (caused or aggravated by a mental factor such as internal conflict or stress). Anything you say about psychosomatic illnesses is not relevant. -- Rick C. ---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
torsdag den 18. november 2021 kl. 22.18.51 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:48:12 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote: > > On 18/11/2021 20.22, Rick C wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:09:58 PM UTC-4, T wrote: > > >> On 11/18/21 11:01, Rick C wrote: > > >>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote: > > >>>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: > > >> > > >>>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There may be a correlation, but how strong? > > >>>>> > > >>>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get > > >>>> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. > > >>> > > >>> My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be exaggerating. > > >>> > > >> That is a good excuse for not giving a shit about > > >> what harm your behavior causes your neighbors. > > > > > > This is the sort of exaggeration I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > >> And I am not exaggerating. You need to watch helplessly > > >> as someone you love gasps in terror trying to breath. > > >> Or maybe have it happen to you. > > > > > > You still can't respond to the actual statement I made. > > > > > > > > >> Whatsoever you would have others do unto you, do > > >> unto them. Have you ever heard of "karma"? > > > > > > Here you have gone off the deep end casting me as someone who creates problems for you. You've lost it now. > > > > > > The condition is very real. People like you who can't be rational about it and only talk in terms of emotion should stay away from the forefront or others will think we are all like you. > > Yes, it is real, but it is psychosomatic. Doesn't make it less real. > It is not psychosomatic (caused or aggravated by a mental factor such as internal conflict or stress). Anything you say about psychosomatic illnesses is not relevant.how can you rules out it is psychosomatic? the mind can do weird things, and smells are already know to be powerful triggers of for example memories
Reply by ●November 18, 20212021-11-18
T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:> On 11/17/21 13:06, Cydrome Leader wrote: >> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Anyone with a chemistry background? >>> >>> There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes >>> (that are highly scented) that are not meant to >>> wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult >>> on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They >>> don't wash out. >>> >>> Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these >>> toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash >>> out in water. Am I correct? >>> >>> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? >>> Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? >>> >>> Any other ideas one way other the other? >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> -T >> >> Not sure what you're after here, but if you want a laundry detergent >> itself with no extra smells of any type added, look at the lineup from >> Atsko. The no UV hunting detergent and sport wash are the same product >> with different labelling. Nothing else comes close to just being detergent >> with no additives. The stuff has virtually no odor even if you smell from >> the jug itself. It also leaves no weird residues on washed clothing. It's >> perfect for hypochondriacs or people who just need rags with no residue on >> them. >> > > I am after getting other people chemicals out of > my cloths. I have tried stuff for hunters and > it does not work.which product for hunters did you try?
