OT: alcohol based perfume removal?

On 11/18/21 06:47, Rick C wrote:
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 8:40:33 AM UTC-4, Johann Klammer wrote:
>> On 11/17/2021 06:34 AM, Rick C wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure where you heard that detergents have fragrances that are not water soluble. I suppose it is theoretically possible, but it would not disperse evenly in the wash and would not be applied evenly to the articles in the wash.
>>>
>>> Do you know the names of any of these fragrances?
>>>
>>> I buy laundry detergents without perfume or color. I think the brand is All. I find the scent from soaps and fabric softener to be cloying and clogs my sense of smell. I'm happy with no scent. I find antiperspirants to be similar, but I can't find them without any scent, however some are rather mild.
>>>
>>> It is hard to imagine any scent (other than Eau de Pew) that won't depart sheets and clothing hanging on the line for a day.
>>>
>>> What makes you think these substances are actually "toxic"?
>>>
>> The search term is fabric softener. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabric_softener#Risks>
>> They're problematic.
> 
> They may be problematic, but the reference you provide doesn't say they are "toxic".   "Toxic - Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means".  I don't see any mention of death or serious injury, at least unless you are handling the stuff.  What we are talking about here is equivalent to second hand smoke.  It's hard to apply the term "toxic".
> 
> But maybe I'm just not that sensitive.
> 
When your lips start to turn blue, you will get
more sensitive.

On 11/18/21 03:42, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/17/21 02:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> The obvious solution is simply to not add a softener to the machine -
>>> our machines have 4 receptacles: pre-wash, wash, bleach, and softener.
>>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> Oh lord!  What makes you think I would use these chemicals?
>> My house is totally unscented.
>>
>> I am picking them up from other people's houses and businesses.
> 
> I once had to threaten a neighbour with calling in the Public Health
> department when they refused to stop using excessive amounts of perfume
> that kept blowing into my house.
> 
> 

And when their house gets hot, they open their windows
and share with the neighborhood all the plug in air
fresheners.

Public Health does not give a ...

On 11/18/21 03:42, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/17/21 02:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> The obvious solution is simply to not add a softener to the machine -
>>> our machines have 4 receptacles: pre-wash, wash, bleach, and softener.
>>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> Oh lord!  What makes you think I would use these chemicals?
>> My house is totally unscented.
>>
>> I am picking them up from other people's houses and businesses.
> 
> I once had to threaten a neighbour with calling in the Public Health
> department when they refused to stop using excessive amounts of perfume
> that kept blowing into my house.
> 
> 

You figure to remove fabric finishes in new cloths?

On 11/18/21 03:42, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> [...]
>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using
>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the
>> neighborhood too
> 
> I've had that too.  I finished up begging my neighbour to redirect their
> dryer exhaust or use something unperfumed, but she adamantly refused.
> Her husband came round apologising, but it was no use, he couldn't get
> her to stop either and I lost two years of being able to work in my
> garden until they moved away.

We been there.  Ask the neighbors is no help.

On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up
>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs):
>>>
>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair?
>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to
>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my
>> family will starve.
> 
> That's an interesting concept.  I suspect it is not a valid argument in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm to yourself and to your family.  You can change jobs if nothing else.
> 
> 
>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even have those plug in fresheners.
>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using
>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the
>> neighborhood too
> 
> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your neighbor's dryer exhaust vent.
> 
> 
>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, sells.
>>>
>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of
>> the population has breathing issues of one type
>> or another. Asthma especially.
> 
> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes.  There may be a correlation, but how strong?
> 

I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get
sensitive.  Your outlook will change dramatically.

On 11/18/21 03:42, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> [...]at number towards them using nontoxic scents.
>>
>> Or our neighbors could give a damn about the affect
>> on those around them and stop purchasing those products.
>> That would tilt the number on the bottom line in
>> a hell of a hurry.
> 
> A lot of 'public health' advice was distributed by women's magazines and
> they were paid for by the perfume advertising.  You could not have got
> the message out even if people had been dying at the rate of hundreds a
> week.
> 
> I cannot drive my van in the Bath Clean Air Zone without a heavy
> penalty, but I can't use buses as an alternative because there might be
> someone on board wearing perfume.  There are no regulations about shops
> pumping out perfume and the Council has already told me they can't do
> anything to stop that unless I live in the same street as the shop.
> 
> The "Clean Air Zone" doesn't extend to perfume in shops and buses, yet
> far more people are ill because of perfume than because of diesel fumes
> (but diesel fumes are easier to measure and vehicle owners are 'soft'
> targets).
> 

Magazines and catalogs have finally stopped putting
sniffers in them around here.  They made all your
mail sitting with them in the box toxic.

On 11/18/21 06:39, Rick C wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:55:21 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 11/17/21 13:06, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>>> T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Anyone with a chemistry background?
>>>>
>>>> There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes
>>>> (that are highly scented) that are not meant to
>>>> wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult
>>>> on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They
>>>> don't wash out.
>>>>
>>>> Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these
>>>> toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash
>>>> out in water. Am I correct?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out?
>>>> Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer?
>>>>
>>>> Any other ideas one way other the other?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> -T
>>>
>>> Not sure what you're after here, but if you want a laundry detergent
>>> itself with no extra smells of any type added, look at the lineup from
>>> Atsko. The no UV hunting detergent and sport wash are the same product
>>> with different labelling. Nothing else comes close to just being detergent
>>> with no additives. The stuff has virtually no odor even if you smell from
>>> the jug itself. It also leaves no weird residues on washed clothing. It's
>>> perfect for hypochondriacs or people who just need rags with no residue on
>>> them.

Except they give folks with sensitive skin a rash.  Do not
believe the hype.  We found out the hard way.

>>>
>> I am after getting other people chemicals out of
>> my cloths. I have tried stuff for hunters and
>> it does not work.
> 
> Maybe the easy path is to wear a set of coveralls for work and not bring them into the home?
> 

It goes all the way through to my skin.
Even gets my socks under my boots.
My shower after going to work are
interesting.

And it get in my lungs, which I blow off on
my family.  Wearing a carbon impregnated
mask helps about 50% -- both at work and
at home.  It takes three days for my lungs
to fully clear out.  They are not real
effective.

In article <sn4hbr$a16$1@dont-email.me>, T  <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>To those that are sensitive, your deodorant does
>bother them, especially Brute.  Your hand lotion,
>hand soap, shampoo, shaving lotion, hand sanitize
>too.

Yup.  I inherited my mother's sensitivity to a bunch of aromatics -
orange oil and perfumes are the biggest problems.  They give me (and
her) a really nasty headache, which seems to involve some amount of
vasoconstriction in the veins or arteries in the skull.  I learned at
a very early age to avoid people wearing perfume, the perfume sections
of stores, and so forth... "exhale sharply, hold breath, leave the
area ASAP" is still my recipe 60-some years later.  Getting past the
duty-free area in airports is often a trial.

A couple of decades ago, when I was working at a small startup company
in Palo Alto, the office manager (wife of the engineering VP) came in
to work wearing the then-popular perfume "Giorgio" - a very strong
floral/musky scent.  By lunchtime I had developed the only migrane
headache I've ever had, including scotomas in my visual field so bad I
could barely see.  I went home.  When I got there, I found I'd
actually become aphasic - I could't speak coherently to my wife (which
scared her quite badly).  All I could do was take some painkillers, a
dose of antihistamine, and a Bronkaid (contains ephedrine, which seems
to help) and doze for a few hours until it wore off.

I was fine the next day (and had a personal appreciation for what a
stroke might feel like).  I spoke with the office manager and asked
her _never_ to wear that perfume to the office again - she was
horrified by what had happened and promised to avoid it (and did, for
the rest of the time we worked together).

I, like some others here, hate those perfumed fabric-softener "dryer
sheets".  They dump so much perfume into the outside air during a
drying cycle that I can smell and taste them a hundred yards down-wind
of the house using them.  They're the olfactory equivalent of a car
which sits at a light blasting away with 300 watts of whomp-whomp-
whomp amelodic music... a socially-unpleasant way of marking
territory, I suppose.

One of the things which immediately caught my notice about a lady
in my Tai Chi class, decades ago, was that she didn't wear any
perfume (or makeup for that matter).  When she invited me for
"gastronomic decadence" after class (frozen yoghurt at The Good
Earth) I accepted.  We've been married for 35 years now, and she
still doesn't use perfume or makeup.

On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote:
> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up
>>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs):
>>>>
>>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but 
>>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair?
>>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to
>>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my
>>> family will starve.
>>
>> That's an interesting concept.  I suspect it is not a valid argument 
>> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm 
>> to yourself and to your family.  You can change jobs if nothing else.
>>
>>
>>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a 
>>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been 
>>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the 
>>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but 
>>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even 
>>>> have those plug in fresheners.
>>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using
>>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the
>>> neighborhood too
>>
>> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your 
>> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent.
>>
>>
>>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the 
>>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of 
>>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not 
>>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why 
>>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I 
>>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, 
>>>> sells.
>>>>
>>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of
>>> the population has breathing issues of one type
>>> or another. Asthma especially.
>>
>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes.  There 
>> may be a correlation, but how strong?
>>
> 
> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get
> sensitive.  Your outlook will change dramatically.

Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your 
neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the 
modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you 
provoke.

That's how things are.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

On 11/18/21 10:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote:
>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up
>>>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs):
>>>>>
>>>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but 
>>>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the 
>>>>> chair?
>>>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to
>>>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my
>>>> family will starve.
>>>
>>> That's an interesting concept.  I suspect it is not a valid argument 
>>> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm 
>>> to yourself and to your family.  You can change jobs if nothing else.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a 
>>>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been 
>>>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in 
>>>>> the bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but 
>>>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or 
>>>>> even have those plug in fresheners.
>>>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using
>>>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the
>>>> neighborhood too
>>>
>>> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your 
>>> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the 
>>>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of 
>>>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not 
>>>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why 
>>>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I 
>>>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, 
>>>>> sells.
>>>>>
>>>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of
>>>> the population has breathing issues of one type
>>>> or another. Asthma especially.
>>>
>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes.  There 
>>> may be a correlation, but how strong?
>>>
>>
>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get
>> sensitive.  Your outlook will change dramatically.
> 
> Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your 
> neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the 
> modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you 
> provoke.
> 
> That's how things are.
> 

Suing over things like this is like pissing in the
wind.  Either your neighbors will be considerate of
others or they will not.  Karma will eventually catch
up with them.