OT: alcohol based perfume removal?

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> On 11/18/2021 8:07 AM, Martin Brown wrote: 
> > On 18/11/2021 03:32, T wrote: 
> >> On 11/17/21 09:12, Martin Brown wrote: 
> >>> You might get better answers in sci.chem than here 
> >> 
> >> I just posted over there. 
> >> 
> >> I originally searched for it in subscriptions, but I 
> >> typed out "chemistry" and could not find it.  Thank 
> >> you! 
> > 
> > sci.chem is one of the very old foundation groups hence the short name. 
> > chemistry was one letter too long for its own good back in the day. 
> > 
> > Try Google groups "Uncle Al" and your topic and you might just get 
> > something. He was in his day very very smart and knowledgeable. It's 
> > rather quiet there now. You don't get many random nutters posting about 
> > chemistry (they are all posting in the sci.astro .physics sub groups). 
> >
> Interesting question, why does chemistry not attract as many as physics 
> and EE for that matter? Like claiming they've created the ultimate grape 
> flavor or a cream that cures pattern baldness in 100% of cases? 
> 
> Maybe the initial educational and equipment outlay is too high for it to 
> appeal much to kooks, you can learn enough physics in not too long to 
> kinda sound like you know what you're talking about to laypeople, but 
> research chemistry seems like you need at least a few years of serious 
> study before you can even bullshit effectively. And many thousands of 
> dollars of lab equipment and a place to put it before you could do even 
> basic experiments. 
> 
> Or perhaps it just doesn't seem as glamorous, most people could name 
> some physicists and engineers who achieved fame for world-changing 
> discoveries but naming some famous chemists might be more difficult for 
> a layperson

I was a chemist for maybe two years.  I had a BS and was just a pair of hands.  You need a PhD to do anything useful.  Any lesser degree and you are just Beaker, the lab assistant getting blown up and developing cancer, one step above the lab rats. 

I quit and got a job in electronics at the same pay, without a degree.  

-- 

Rick C.

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On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote: 
> >> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote: 
> >>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up 
> >>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs): 
> >>> 
> >>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair? 
> >> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to 
> >> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my 
> >> family will starve. 
> > 
> > That's an interesting concept. I suspect it is not a valid argument in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm to yourself and to your family. You can change jobs if nothing else. 
> > 
> > 
> >>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even have those plug in fresheners. 
> >> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using 
> >> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the 
> >> neighborhood too 
> > 
> > I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your neighbor's dryer exhaust vent. 
> > 
> > 
> >>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, sells. 
> >>> 
> >> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of 
> >> the population has breathing issues of one type 
> >> or another. Asthma especially. 
> > 
> > Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There may be a correlation, but how strong? 
> >
> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get 
> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically.

My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be exaggerating. 

-- 

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote: 
> > On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: 
> >> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote: 
> >>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote: 
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up 
> >>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs): 
> >>>> 
> >>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but 
> >>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair? 
> >>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to 
> >>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my 
> >>> family will starve. 
> >> 
> >> That's an interesting concept.  I suspect it is not a valid argument 
> >> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm 
> >> to yourself and to your family.  You can change jobs if nothing else. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a 
> >>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been 
> >>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the 
> >>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but 
> >>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even 
> >>>> have those plug in fresheners. 
> >>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using 
> >>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the 
> >>> neighborhood too 
> >> 
> >> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your 
> >> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the 
> >>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of 
> >>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not 
> >>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why 
> >>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I 
> >>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells, 
> >>>> sells. 
> >>>> 
> >>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of 
> >>> the population has breathing issues of one type 
> >>> or another. Asthma especially. 
> >> 
> >> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes.  There 
> >> may be a correlation, but how strong? 
> >> 
> > 
> > I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get 
> > sensitive.  Your outlook will change dramatically.
> Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your 
> neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the 
> modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you 
> provoke. 
> 
> That's how things are. 

No, that's not how things are.  But you have to be able to prove your claims and that is not easy to do in a court using their rules of evidence.  It would be a civil case and you have to prove harm and causality.  I think proving harm is the hard part, but causality is not going to be easy either. 

-- 

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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On 11/18/21 11:04, Rick C wrote:
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote:
>>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up
>>>>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but
>>>>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the chair?
>>>>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to
>>>>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my
>>>>> family will starve.
>>>>
>>>> That's an interesting concept.  I suspect it is not a valid argument
>>>> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm
>>>> to yourself and to your family.  You can change jobs if nothing else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a
>>>>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been
>>>>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the
>>>>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but
>>>>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even
>>>>>> have those plug in fresheners.
>>>>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using
>>>>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the
>>>>> neighborhood too
>>>>
>>>> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your
>>>> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the
>>>>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of
>>>>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not
>>>>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why
>>>>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I
>>>>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells,
>>>>>> sells.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of
>>>>> the population has breathing issues of one type
>>>>> or another. Asthma especially.
>>>>
>>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes.  There
>>>> may be a correlation, but how strong?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get
>>> sensitive.  Your outlook will change dramatically.
>> Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your
>> neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the
>> modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you
>> provoke.
>>
>> That's how things are.
> 
> No, that's not how things are.  But you have to be able to prove your claims and that is not easy to do in a court using their rules of evidence.  It would be a civil case and you have to prove harm and causality.  I think proving harm is the hard part, but causality is not going to be easy either.
> 

Would it not be nice if folks were just considerate
of others?

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

> On 18/11/2021 01:05, T wrote:
> > On 11/17/21 02:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >> The obvious solution is simply to not add a softener to the machine -
> >> our machines have 4 receptacles: pre-wash, wash, bleach, and softener.
> > 
> > Hi Carlos,
> > 
> > Oh lord!&nbsp; What makes you think I would use these chemicals?
> > My house is totally unscented.
> > 
> > I am picking them up from other people's houses and businesses.
> 
> Apart from soap vendor Lush (which I avoid like the plague) I can't 
> think of any other shops in the UK that have sufficient fragrance in 
> their air to ever cause me a problem.

On one occasion I stopped at a stall set up by the local Council to
promote something-or-other they were doing.  As I was talking to one of
the Officers, the wind changed direction and I was overpowered by
perfume from a shop two streets away.

The Officer was appaled and said I should get in touch with them in
writing and make a formal complaint.  This I did - the reply a couple of
weeks later was that my complaint could only be followed up if I lived
in the same street as the shop.

On another occasion some neighbours sprayed perfume around and drove me
out of my house completely.  I finished up sleeping on the floor at a
relative's house.  Having got no action whatsoever from the
Environmental Health Officer, I decided to retaliate against my
neighbours and drive them out of their house.  I set up a large P.A.
amplifier on a time switch and played loud disturbing sounds for periods
of about ten minutes each at random intervals throughout the night.

Eventually they called in the Environmnetal Health Officer, who came
round and threatened me with prosecution and imprisonment.  He backed
down when I pointed out that I would make sure the court and the press
knew that I was only doing it because of his department's failure to
take action.

He then gave me an emergency 'phone number to contact him if I was
driven out by perfume again, and a sample bag to collect air samples.
For a week nothing happened, then in the early hours of one morning the
house filled with perfume.  The 'emergency' number was never answered
and the air sample, which I delivered to their office in person later
that morning, went missing and was found under a desk three weeks later.

From personal experience I have many more stories like that.  Perfume
allergy just isn't treated seriously.

-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 11/18/21 11:01, Rick C wrote:
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote:

>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There may be a correlation, but how strong?
>>>
>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get
>> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically.
> 
> My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be exaggerating.
> 

That is a good excuse for not giving a shit about
what harm your behavior causes your neighbors.

And I am not exaggerating.  You need to watch helplessly
as someone you love gasps in terror trying to breath.
Or maybe have it happen to you.

Whatsoever you would have others do unto you, do
unto them.  Have you ever heard of "karma"?

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:17:22 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:
> In article <sn4hbr$a16$1...@dont-email.me>, T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote: 
> 
> >To those that are sensitive, your deodorant does 
> >bother them, especially Brute. Your hand lotion, 
> >hand soap, shampoo, shaving lotion, hand sanitize 
> >too.
> Yup. I inherited my mother's sensitivity to a bunch of aromatics - 
> orange oil and perfumes are the biggest problems. They give me (and 
> her) a really nasty headache, which seems to involve some amount of 
> vasoconstriction in the veins or arteries in the skull. I learned at 
> a very early age to avoid people wearing perfume, the perfume sections 
> of stores, and so forth... "exhale sharply, hold breath, leave the 
> area ASAP" is still my recipe 60-some years later. Getting past the 
> duty-free area in airports is often a trial. 

I'm surprised that natural scents are an issue.  If you are sensitive to orange oil, can you not handle an orange or eat orange?  

I stopped wearing cologne and now wear essential oils because they don't cause me any trouble.   They don't last as long, but I haven't found anyone they offend.  Now that you mention it, I will look for orange oil next time I'm in the store.  I would like wearing that and I don't think it will be strong enough to bother anyone here through the Internet. 


-- 

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:07:00 PM UTC-4, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: 
> 
> > On 18/11/2021 01:05, T wrote: 
> > > On 11/17/21 02:03, Carlos E. R. wrote: 
> > >> The obvious solution is simply to not add a softener to the machine - 
> > >> our machines have 4 receptacles: pre-wash, wash, bleach, and softener. 
> > > 
> > > Hi Carlos, 
> > > 
> > > Oh lord!  What makes you think I would use these chemicals? 
> > > My house is totally unscented. 
> > > 
> > > I am picking them up from other people's houses and businesses. 
> > 
> > Apart from soap vendor Lush (which I avoid like the plague) I can't 
> > think of any other shops in the UK that have sufficient fragrance in 
> > their air to ever cause me a problem.
> On one occasion I stopped at a stall set up by the local Council to 
> promote something-or-other they were doing. As I was talking to one of 
> the Officers, the wind changed direction and I was overpowered by 
> perfume from a shop two streets away. 
> 
> The Officer was appaled and said I should get in touch with them in 
> writing and make a formal complaint. This I did - the reply a couple of 
> weeks later was that my complaint could only be followed up if I lived
> in the same street as the shop.
> On another occasion some neighbours sprayed perfume around and drove me 
> out of my house completely. I finished up sleeping on the floor at a 
> relative's house. Having got no action whatsoever from the 
> Environmental Health Officer, I decided to retaliate against my 
> neighbours and drive them out of their house. I set up a large P.A. 
> amplifier on a time switch and played loud disturbing sounds for periods 
> of about ten minutes each at random intervals throughout the night. 
> 
> Eventually they called in the Environmnetal Health Officer, who came 
> round and threatened me with prosecution and imprisonment. He backed 
> down when I pointed out that I would make sure the court and the press 
> knew that I was only doing it because of his department's failure to 
> take action. 
> 
> He then gave me an emergency 'phone number to contact him if I was 
> driven out by perfume again, and a sample bag to collect air samples. 
> For a week nothing happened, then in the early hours of one morning the 
> house filled with perfume. The 'emergency' number was never answered 
> and the air sample, which I delivered to their office in person later 
> that morning, went missing and was found under a desk three weeks later. 
> 
> From personal experience I have many more stories like that. Perfume 
> allergy just isn't treated seriously.

Never in retaliation to perfume attacks, but I have often fantasized about acoustic responses to acoustic attacks from my neighbors.  Where I live in Virginia is on a lake with seasonal neighbors.  8 months out of the year I hear nothing because they aren't there.  When they show up in the summer months they want to play loud music at all hours.  I'd like to find their weekday homes and play loud music when they are trying to relax or sleep. 

I understand you can mix two ultrasonic sources and produce a beat pattern.  If the ultrasonic signals are modulated, one of the results is the unmodulated signal.  :0  They wouldn't even know which direction it is coming from.  It wouldn't even need to be loud, just disturbing in some way.  Maybe something from a horror movie? 

Done at a very low level might allow for subliminal messages...  That could be interesting. 

-- 

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:09:58 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 11/18/21 11:01, Rick C wrote: 
> > On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-4, T wrote: 
> >> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote: 
> 
> >>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes. There may be a correlation, but how strong? 
> >>> 
> >> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get 
> >> sensitive. Your outlook will change dramatically. 
> > 
> > My having the condition does not change the facts which you seem to be exaggerating. 
> >
> That is a good excuse for not giving a shit about 
> what harm your behavior causes your neighbors. 

This is the sort of exaggeration I'm referring to. 


> And I am not exaggerating. You need to watch helplessly 
> as someone you love gasps in terror trying to breath. 
> Or maybe have it happen to you. 

You still can't respond to the actual statement I made.  


> Whatsoever you would have others do unto you, do 
> unto them. Have you ever heard of "karma"?

Here you have gone off the deep end casting me as someone who creates problems for you.  You've lost it now. 

The condition is very real.  People like you who can't be rational about it and only talk in terms of emotion should stay away from the forefront or others will think we are all like you. 

-- 

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 

On 18/11/2021 20.05, T wrote:
> On 11/18/21 11:04, Rick C wrote:
>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 18/11/2021 18.37, T wrote:
>>>> On 11/18/21 06:38, Rick C wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:50:04 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/21 04:02, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:22:16 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up
>>>>>>>> by me sitting in peoples chairs):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You talk about picking it up from other people's furniture, but
>>>>>>> don't you smell that as soon as you enter the room or sit in the 
>>>>>>> chair?
>>>>>> Of course. I am a computer consultant. I have to
>>>>>> enter their rooms and sit in their chairs or my
>>>>>> family will starve.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's an interesting concept.  I suspect it is not a valid argument
>>>>> in general, but it is certainly not a valid argument for causing harm
>>>>> to yourself and to your family.  You can change jobs if nothing else.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm presently living in Airbnb places for a couple of weeks at a
>>>>>>> time. I often walk into an apartment only to find it has been
>>>>>>> fumigated with these sorts of scents. Sometimes I can't sleep in the
>>>>>>> bed right away. I think this is mostly fabric softeners, but
>>>>>>> sometimes they add special scents to the place when cleaning or even
>>>>>>> have those plug in fresheners.
>>>>>> Oh and the exhaust from their dryers after using
>>>>>> fabric softeners pollutes the air in the
>>>>>> neighborhood too
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are going to have a hard time showing any harm from your
>>>>> neighbor's dryer exhaust vent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To people who aren't sensitive, all these scents smell good. To the
>>>>>>> rest of us it's not a lot different from spreading the smell of
>>>>>>> feces or decaying flesh. Some scents are barely noticeable and not
>>>>>>> offensive to me, like in the antiperspirants I use. I wonder why
>>>>>>> they use the scents that are much stronger and easily offend. I
>>>>>>> guess it's still a tiny minority who are sensitive and what sells,
>>>>>>> sells.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh I do not know about "tiny". Just under 20% of
>>>>>> the population has breathing issues of one type
>>>>>> or another. Asthma especially.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having asthma does not equate to being sensitive to perfumes.  There
>>>>> may be a correlation, but how strong?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I sincerely hope you or anyone you love ever get
>>>> sensitive.  Your outlook will change dramatically.
>>> Even so, you still have no grounds to sue anyone. If you want your
>>> neighbour to redirect the exhaust vent, rather offer to pay yourself the
>>> modification, and add a bonus to your neighbours for the disturbance you
>>> provoke.
>>>
>>> That's how things are.
>>
>> No, that's not how things are.  But you have to be able to prove your 
>> claims and that is not easy to do in a court using their rules of 
>> evidence.  It would be a civil case and you have to prove harm and 
>> causality.  I think proving harm is the hard part, but causality is 
>> not going to be easy either.
>>
> 
> Would it not be nice if folks were just considerate
> of others?

The normal thought is that you are simply mad and ignore you, as that 
neighbour did with her clothes dryer.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.