Anyone hear of a 120V clothes dryer?

On 2021/10/04 12:30 a.m., Rick C wrote:
> The dryer here seems to be plugged into a 120V outlet.  It's also on an extension cord.  Anyone see anything like that before?
> 
> I suppose it's actually a 240V connector which is the same size as a standard 120V connector but having one or more pins turned 90 degrees.  Still, those aren't very high current.
> 

26 of them at Home Depot:

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Washers-Dryers-Dryers-Electric-Dryers/120-volt/N-5yc1vZc3q1Z1z17ja4

John :-#(#

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 10/4/2021 11:21 AM, Rob wrote:
>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>> but it saves water and things get cleaner ..
>> 
>> Saving is not something US citizens seem to be concerned about...
>
> Sure!  We save *money* (that 300 euros of which you spoke).
>
> Would you say europeans aren't concerned about saving (money)?

I would say that on the average we are more careful in making
considerations and not waive away possible new developments with a raw
calculation of "that would not personally save me money".  Sure some
people have too little money and when they want to buy something the (have
to) carefully consider the price, but I think lots of europeans would
not consider paying 300 euro more for an appliance with a (hopefully)
10-15 year lifespan "not worth it because it won't save me money", when
it results in saving lots of energy or similar environmental benefits,
and will not cost more over its lifetime.

For example, when looking up dryers on the local webshop I have to
be really specific to find types that are not heat pump based.
It looks like in the USA they are a novelty and "not worth buying".

So I consider us Europeans to be ahead.

On 10/4/2021 11:57 AM, amdx wrote:
> On 10/4/2021 5:31 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 10/4/2021 2:36 AM, Rob wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 04-Oct-21 7:27 pm, Rob wrote:
>>>>> Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The dryer here seems to be plugged into a 120V outlet.  It's also on an 
>>>>>> extension cord. Anyone see anything like that before?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose it's actually a 240V connector which is the same size as a 
>>>>>> standard 120V connector but having one or more pins turned 90 degrees.  
>>>>>> Still, those aren't very high current.
>>>>>
>>>>> Over here in Europe we have clothes dryers that use heat pumping
>>>>> instead of electric heating.  They use like 700-1000W of power so
>>>>> they could easily work from a standard 120V socket.
>>>>
>>>> They no doubt save energy, but at what cost? They don't sound economic.
>>>
>>> They cost like 300 euro more, which we save on electricity costs in
>>> about 4 years.
>>>
>>> Not a stunning economic difference, but you know what?  In Europe we
>>> do consider the environment, and are not only watching pennies as
>>> a decisiion criterium when buying energy wasting equipment.
>>>
>>> Maybe in the US you should start doing that too!
>>
>> My "inexpensive" dryer costs about $12/year to operate (according
>> to the gummit -- I suspect it costs us LESS as we're a small
>> household and not "clothes hogs").
>>
>> Assuming euros == dollars (not!), that would be 25 years to
>> break even at a $300 premium.
>>
>> You'd think european manufacturers would have sorted out how
>> to make a dryer for less of a premium!
> 
> I'm sure my elecric dryer draws at least 30 amps on 240 Volts. That's 7.2kW.

No, you'd have to look at the boilerplate on the dryer to know it's
actual RATED consumption.  And, that assumes you are running it
AT it's rated power.

Ours is *rated* at 5400W.  So, we KNOW it doesn't use the full (fused)
electric service available to it.  And, we know that it doesn't use
it's full capacity because there are various different heat settings
and cycles selectable (if it was always "full on", then time would be
the only variable left, eh?)

The energy efficiency of a dryer is rated in terms of number of
KWHrs per pound of clothes dried (or vice versa).  So, for a given
"load", you can compute what your electrical costs for drying will be.

You can watch your KWHr meter while the dryer is running to get
a feel for the *rate* at which it is using electricity.

[Of course, if you also make use of the "keep-tumbling-it-periodically
in-case-I-forget-to-take-the-stuff-out-promptly" feature, your costs
will increase.  Ditto if you use steam.]

> Saw I use my dryer 1 hr a week, (I use it more). That would be 7.2kWH per week
> 
> 7.2kWh x  $0.15 = $1.08 a week x 52 weeks = $56.16.In reality I can see over 
> $100 a year to run my dryer.

Look into other drying alternatives.  Here, it is so "dry" that simply
hanging clothes on hangers (spaced apart) is enough to dry them passively.
This doesn't work for "heavy" items -- like towels or blankets (which we
don't have!).

> Even so, I think that's a deal.

On 10/4/2021 12:14 PM, Rob wrote:
> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> On 10/4/2021 11:21 AM, Rob wrote:
>>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>> but it saves water and things get cleaner ..
>>>
>>> Saving is not something US citizens seem to be concerned about...
>>
>> Sure!  We save *money* (that 300 euros of which you spoke).
>>
>> Would you say europeans aren't concerned about saving (money)?
> 
> I would say that on the average we are more careful in making
> considerations and not waive away possible new developments with a raw
> calculation of "that would not personally save me money".  Sure some

It's not a calculation re" "how much can I afford".  It's just a *natural*
way to evaluate an item.  People (even europeans) aren't particuarly
skilled at evaluating all of the externalities associated with a particular
decision.  Lumping those issues into a *price* is an easier way to
modify behavior; people may not believe in a particular issue but if
it gets factored into the prices for the things they pay, they will
typically act in the manner that favors those factors.

I've been "recycling" since the early 70's -- when you had to drive
your items to a central collection site.

Nowadays, most US households have curbside recycling -- just put
your recyclables out alongside the trash (in a separate barrel).
The cost of doing so is relatively low -- to the end user.  So,
compliance is relatively high.

That doesn't necessarily translate into *purchasing* decisions,
though!  E.g., I'll buy a product in a plastic "tub" without
noticing if the tub is made of a plastic that is (locally) recyclable.

I'll be conscientious about checking the markings on the tub WHEN
DISPOSING OF IT -- soas not to place it in with the recyclables
if it is NOT a supported type (which would increase the cost to
the recycler as he'd have to separate out that item).  But, I
won't make a note that Brand X of Product Y is in a nonrecyclable
tub.

OTOH, I'll opt for a glass container over plastic as I know it to
be recyclable.  And, perceive some value of glass packaging
(freshness, etc.) over plastic.

> people have too little money and when they want to buy something the (have
> to) carefully consider the price, but I think lots of europeans would
> not consider paying 300 euro more for an appliance with a (hopefully)
> 10-15 year lifespan "not worth it because it won't save me money", when
> it results in saving lots of energy or similar environmental benefits,
> and will not cost more over its lifetime.
> 
> For example, when looking up dryers on the local webshop I have to
> be really specific to find types that are not heat pump based.
> It looks like in the USA they are a novelty and "not worth buying".

They are considerably more expensive.  Here -- and I suspect there,
as well -- the manufacturer helps himself to some of YOUR future savings.
He doesn't pass along the feature at his cost but figures he can make some
EXTRA profit from you -- in terms of what you may EVENTUALLY save
on energy costs.

So, I guess he's just as capitalistic as a US manufacturer!

> So I consider us Europeans to be ahead.

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 2:57:13 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> On 10/4/2021 5:31 AM, Don Y wrote: 
> > On 10/4/2021 2:36 AM, Rob wrote:
> >> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote: 
> >>> On 04-Oct-21 7:27 pm, Rob wrote:
> >>>> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> >>>>> The dryer here seems to be plugged into a 120V outlet. It's also 
> >>>>> on an extension cord. Anyone see anything like that before? 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I suppose it's actually a 240V connector which is the same size as 
> >>>>> a standard 120V connector but having one or more pins turned 90 
> >>>>> degrees. Still, those aren't very high current. 
> >>>>
> >>>> Over here in Europe we have clothes dryers that use heat pumping 
> >>>> instead of electric heating. They use like 700-1000W of power so 
> >>>> they could easily work from a standard 120V socket. 
> >>> 
> >>> They no doubt save energy, but at what cost? They don't sound economic. 
> >>
> >> They cost like 300 euro more, which we save on electricity costs in 
> >> about 4 years. 
> >> 
> >> Not a stunning economic difference, but you know what? In Europe we 
> >> do consider the environment, and are not only watching pennies as 
> >> a decisiion criterium when buying energy wasting equipment. 
> >> 
> >> Maybe in the US you should start doing that too! 
> >
> > My "inexpensive" dryer costs about $12/year to operate (according 
> > to the gummit -- I suspect it costs us LESS as we're a small 
> > household and not "clothes hogs"). 
> >
> > Assuming euros == dollars (not!), that would be 25 years to 
> > break even at a $300 premium. 
> > 
> > You'd think european manufacturers would have sorted out how 
> > to make a dryer for less of a premium! 
> 
> I'm sure my elecric dryer draws at least 30 amps on 240 Volts. That's 7.2kW. 
> 
> Saw I use my dryer 1 hr a week, (I use it more). That would be 7.2kWH 
> per week 

That would not be a dryer, it would be a cooker.  Maybe an electric range hits that consumption, but not a dryer.
A big dryer heater might be 3kW, then the motor might be a few hundred watts.

> 
> 7.2kWh x $0.15 = $1.08 a week x 52 weeks = $56.16.In reality I can see 
> over $100 a year to run my dryer. 
> 
> Even so, I think that's a deal. 
> 
> Mikek 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In article <5b707941-7d64-4ae8-83e0-0e735aaa192cn@googlegroups.com>, 
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com says...
> 
> Heat pump water heaters actually save a bundle. 
> 
> 

I guess it depends on how much hot water you use.  I just did a quick 
search and it seems the few I looked at costs about $ 1000 more than a 
standard electric heater.  With a small family it would take a long time 
to get any payback. By that time you are going to need another heater. 
Could probably put that $ 1000 in the stock market and over the years 
average more than enough to make up for the savings of the heat pump 
type.  Maybe with a large family it would pay for its self.

I did see where you could get about $ 600 in rebates from the power 
company and government .  So that may put the price close to a standard 
electrical heater.

In article <835fef14-ab69-4620-9df9-fbcb0a6e3afdn@googlegroups.com>, 
langwadt@fonz.dk says...
> > Dehumidifiers are not heat pumps. They're more like air conditioners than anything else. Air is drawn through the 32o cooling coil to condense the moisture. From there it is blown through the condensor coil to bring it back up to its original temperature. This keeps net air temperature unchanged. 
> 
> not possible, the energy used to drive the dehumidifier (+ whats gained from condensing water) has to go somewhere 
> 
> 
> 

The net heat gain/loss across the coils is close to zero,but as 
mentioned it does take some enegery to run the unit and that is where 
some net heat gain comes from .  I would think that if it takes 100 
watts of power to run the motors then you would get a net heat gain of a 
100 watt heater if it is a stand alone in the room dehumidifier.

There is no big difference in a heat pump and any other device for 
heating and cooling that uses refrigerent other than the heat pump is 
reversable by valves so you do not have to turn it around to go from 
heat to cool.  They all just pump the heat from one area to the other.

Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> writes:
> Dehumidifiers are not heat pumps. They're more like air conditioners
> than anything else.

Depends on how pedantly you define "heat pump."  It's pumping heat, just
like air conditioners, refrigerators, minisplits, and everything else
that uses phase change thermal transfer systems.

But if you define "heat pump" as "that, but reversible"... yeah, most of
those things are not heat pumps.

> This keeps net air temperature unchanged.

My warm basement disagrees with you.  All the power used to *run* the
dehumidifier causes heat, which is included in the airflow, so the
outgoing air is warmer than the incoming air.  Not by much, but it is.

In article <slrnslmkkr.teo.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>, nomail@example.com 
says...
> 
> For example, when looking up dryers on the local webshop I have to
> be really specific to find types that are not heat pump based.
> It looks like in the USA they are a novelty and "not worth buying".
> 
> 
> 

After looking at the rebates from the power company and government the 
heat pump dryers and other things may be ok price wise.  You pay about 
$ 1000 more but get back $ 600 to $ 700 back.  That is in the USA.

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 5:36:08 AM UTC-4, Rob wrote:
> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote: 
> > On 04-Oct-21 7:27 pm, Rob wrote: 
> >> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> >>> The dryer here seems to be plugged into a 120V outlet. It's also on an extension cord. Anyone see anything like that before? 
> >>> 
> >>> I suppose it's actually a 240V connector which is the same size as a standard 120V connector but having one or more pins turned 90 degrees. Still, those aren't very high current. 
> >> 
> >> Over here in Europe we have clothes dryers that use heat pumping 
> >> instead of electric heating. They use like 700-1000W of power so 
> >> they could easily work from a standard 120V socket. 
> > 
> > They no doubt save energy, but at what cost? They don't sound economic. 
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> They cost like 300 euro more, which we save on electricity costs in 
> about 4 years. 
> 
> Not a stunning economic difference, but you know what? In Europe we 
> do consider the environment, and are not only watching pennies as 
> a decisiion criterium when buying energy wasting equipment. 
> 
> Maybe in the US you should start doing that too!

I was told that in Germany no one thinks of heating with electricity using heat pumps.  They burn oil or gas.  That's not very environmentally sound.  I don't know what they use where you are, but in the UK they sometimes do the worst of all worlds, burning gas to generate electricity and using that to heat directly on off hours.  Saves on facility costs, but not on carbon emissions.  

Energy used in clothes drying is not very much compared to heating the homes.  In fact, everything other than heating and cooling is pretty much in the noise for electric usage.   Even an EV is small in comparison unless you have a rather long commute.   I think Win uses a 120V outlet to charge his hybrid and almost never uses gasoline. 

I guess I should have known this would go off topic very quickly. 

-- 

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209