https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.
copper crisis?
Started by ●July 15, 2022
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> > https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 > > Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they > could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. > Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. > > As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting > resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power > gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long > runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd left it pure. Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> > https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 > > Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they > could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. > Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. > > As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting > resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power > gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long > runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would be some safety issues, for sure. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> > https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 > > Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they > could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. > Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. > > As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting > resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power > gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long > runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to adapt. Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking. Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids. Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees! John :-#)#
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 > > Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they > could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. > Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however, and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
whit3rd wrote:> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >> >> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. > > If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and > generators are small, with low copper content,Powered by clean fusion power, no doubt. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:32:51 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >> >> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >> >> As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >> resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power >> gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long >> runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >> > >You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds > sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would >be some safety issues, for sure. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThe USA is blessed. We have coal, copper, lead, tin, uranium, molybdenum, lithium, nickel, phosphates, silver, rare earth elements, bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, zinc, potash, tungsten, salt, oil, natural gas, water, sand, trees, grass, and girls.
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On 7/15/22 11:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> > https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 > > Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they > could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. > Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. > > As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting > resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power > gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long > runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >If so, now may be the time to consider speculating and go long. A few days ago the Washington Examiner had a article saying copper has fallen 28% since peaking in March, and that it is historically a leading indicator of a recession https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/copper-prices-warning-recession . Apparently one problem with recessions is that you have to either already be out of one or almost there before you can actually tell that one happened, but according to them copper seems to fall right at the start and keeps dropping at least until it's over, maybe longer. They have a plot of copper price overlaid with recessions, and it seems to me that recessions happened at maybe half of the major price drops, so I'm not sold on the usefulness. Back in 2018 Bloomberg had an article claiming that copper fails miserably as a harbinger of recession https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-08-28/copper-prices-fail-miserably-as-recession-indicator#xj4y7vzkg (behind a paywall). Don't look at me, ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances :-). -- Regards, Carl
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On 7/15/2022 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:32:51 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> >>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >>> >>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >>> >>> As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >>> resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power >>> gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long >>> runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >>> >> >> You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds >> sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would >> be some safety issues, for sure. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > The USA is blessed. We have coal, copper, lead, tin, uranium, > molybdenum, lithium, nickel, phosphates, silver, rare earth elements, > bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, zinc, potash, tungsten, salt, oil, > natural gas, water, sand, trees, grass, and girls. >Well, you couldn't make them any less beautiful: <https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virginia/legislation-passed-to-turn-former-coalfields-into-solar-farms/> Bingham Canyon Mine: <https://youtu.be/Qgd2ggcL7EQ> A relative of mine used to work there, in his opinion it all kind of went to shit once Rio Tinto bought it out and their management came in; lots of perks for the execs while the little guy got extra shifts and pay cuts, the usual. Doing truck maintenance for UPS was a much better gig
Reply by ●July 15, 20222022-07-15
On 7/15/2022 2:57 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:> whit3rd wrote: >> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, >> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >>> >>> >>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >> >> If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >> generators are small, with low copper content, > > Powered by clean fusion power, no doubt. ;) > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs >Yeah, well, you're the physicist here what are y'all even doing. You guys put a man on the moon, thought there was a whole team just thinking shit up and then another team of men backing them up: <https://youtu.be/_B7MzBmjaJ8>
