On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:07:50 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <brpadh1iiiht69se2thu7vb46bbbv37vvr@4ax.com>:>On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>: >> >>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>>><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in >>>><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>: >>>> >>>>>On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >>>>>> >>>>>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>>>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >>>>>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >>>>> >>>>>If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise >>>>>compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however, >>>>>and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>> >>>>>"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..." >>>>> >>>> >>>>I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution. >> >>Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff. >>Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure), >>but smooth surface is better (no reflections) >>tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >>google 'cantenna'. >> >>For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire. >> >> >>>Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters? >>>Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper. >>> >>>My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >>>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to >>>wind my own. >> >>What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load? > >My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment >testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some >alternators get into the mid audio range.OK that thing, I thought you mentioned GHz>I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.Impressive specs.. Yes downloaded the datasheet, Ciss is a bit too big for GHz :-) RthJC is .28 max... That by itself at 446 W is alrady 116 degrees C..>The Pockels Cell driver was SiC. > >
copper crisis?
Started by ●July 15, 2022
Reply by ●July 18, 20222022-07-18
Reply by ●July 18, 20222022-07-18
On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 16.08.01 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com: >> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje >> <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >> >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >> ><pth8dh1osgj6lsgki...@4ax.com>: >> > >> >>On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje >> >><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >> >>><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in >> >>><f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>: >> >>> >> >>>>On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >>>>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >> >>>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >> >>>>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >> >>>> >> >>>>If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >> >>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise >> >>>>compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however, >> >>>>and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >> >>>> >> >>>>"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..." >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >> >>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution. >> > >> >Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff. >> >Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure), >> >but smooth surface is better (no reflections) >> >tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >> >google 'cantenna'. >> > >> >For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire. >> > >> > >> >>Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters? >> >>Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper. >> >> >> >>My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >> >>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to >> >>wind my own. >> > >> >What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load? >> My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment >> testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some >> alternators get into the mid audio range. >> >> I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each. > >how happy are they in linear mode? the datasheet SOA doesn't show DCYeah, switcher-rated fets can blow up at low power in linear mode. This one is good for a kilowatt dissipation for 10 ms, and we'll be running at 100 watts max DC per fet. It might be prudent to limit the peak voltage to 250 maybe to keep low in the SOAR. We'll test it for sure. Our FPGA will snoop voltage and current pretty often so it can protect the fets. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nxm7m2q3j3buvc/ExFets.jpg?raw=1 We filled a coffee cup with blown-up fets when we designed our big NMR gradient driver.
Reply by ●July 18, 20222022-07-18
On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:39:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:07:50 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><brpadh1iiiht69se2thu7vb46bbbv37vvr@4ax.com>: > >>On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje >><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>><pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>: >>> >>>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>>>><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in >>>>><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>: >>>>> >>>>>>On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>>>>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >>>>>>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >>>>>> >>>>>>If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise >>>>>>compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however, >>>>>>and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>>> >>>>>>"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..." >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>>>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution. >>> >>>Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff. >>>Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure), >>>but smooth surface is better (no reflections) >>>tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >>>google 'cantenna'. >>> >>>For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire. >>> >>> >>>>Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters? >>>>Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper. >>>> >>>>My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >>>>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to >>>>wind my own. >>> >>>What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load? >> >>My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment >>testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some >>alternators get into the mid audio range. > >OK that thing, I thought you mentioned GHz > >>I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each. > >Impressive specs.. >Yes downloaded the datasheet, Ciss is a bit too big for GHz :-) >RthJC is .28 max... >That by itself at 446 W is alrady 116 degrees C.. >We'll have 4 fets on the CPU cooler. In DC mode, each fet will dissipate 100 watts max. Dumping power from an AC source, each dissipates 50 watts. The decision to make is, how hot can we allow the cooler to get? 75C? 95C? That determines our max power spec, which is still TBD. The cooler itself seems to be about 0.25 K/W at max fan speed.
Reply by ●July 18, 20222022-07-18
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> > https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385I call bullshit on this, same with any other weird future crisis. None of the claims are anything but laughable. I like the "data processing and storage" theory of where all the copper is going now.
Reply by ●July 18, 20222022-07-18
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >>> >>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >> >>If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise >>compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however, >>and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >> >>"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..." > > These are cool: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1 > > Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air. > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1 > > How can they wind that inductor?You can edgewind copper strip. Copper is one of the best examples of malleable that there is.
Reply by ●July 19, 20222022-07-19
On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown: >> On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>> lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>, >>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says... >>>>> >>>>> That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting? >>>>> >>>>> Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up. >>> >>> and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough, >>> you have to get a new one >> They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now: >> > > and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond > isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) > > And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them > so you can tell it is syntheticI reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted. -- Regards, Martin Brown
Reply by ●July 19, 20222022-07-19
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:09:33 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown wrote:> On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown: > >> On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >>> lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: > >>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>, > >>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...<snip>> >>>> There are plenty of diamonds. For a long time the DeBeers have had a > >>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go > >>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up. > >>> > >>> and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough, > >>> you have to get a new one. > >> > >> They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now: > >> > > > > and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond > > isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) > > > > And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them > > so you can tell it is synthetic.The local newspaper did a commercial puff for diamond jewellery and claimed that al the vapour deposited synthetic stones were laser-marked.> I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.Sounds plausible but built-in features would be easier and cheaper to find. Natural C-14 shows up at the the roughly one part per trillion level, so you have to volatilise a trillion C-12 atoms to see just one C-14 atom in freshly photosynthesised carbon-containing compound. This still isn't all that much, but you are looking for needle in a haystack. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●July 19, 20222022-07-19
Martin Brown wrote:> On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >> mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown: >>> On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>> lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>, >>>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says... >>>>>> >>>>>> That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting? >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of >>>>>> diamonds. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up. >>>> >>>> and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough, >>>> you have to get a new one >>> They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now: >>> >> >> and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond >> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >> >> And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them >> so you can tell it is synthetic > > I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or > radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted. >Nah, you just make the new ones out of coal. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●July 19, 20222022-07-19
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:19:24 PM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Martin Brown wrote: > > On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >> mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown: > >>> On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >>>> lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: > >>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>, > >>>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on > >>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of > >>>>>> diamonds. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a > >>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go > >>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up. > >>>> > >>>> and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough, > >>>> you have to get a new one > >>> > >>> They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now: > >>> > >> > >> and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond > >> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) > >> > >> And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them > >> so you can tell it is synthetic > > > > I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or > > radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted. > > > Nah, you just make the new ones out of coal. ;)IIRR you grow gem quaiity diamonds by plasma enhanced chemical vapour deposition, from a stream of hydrogen and methane (mainly hydrogen). Natural gas is mostly methane, and it's spent long enough underground to be just as short of C-14 as coal. Turning coal into methane would be a waste of effort. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●July 21, 20222022-07-21
rbowman wrote:> On 07/18/2022 09:58 AM, John S wrote: >> On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote: >>> >>> On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> >>>> https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow. >>>> Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor. >>>> >>>> As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >>>> resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power >>>> gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long >>>> runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle. >>>> >>> >>> Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have >>> to adapt. >>> >>> Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking. >>> >>> Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids. >>> >>> Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees! >>> >>> John :-#)# >> >> We've been mining the asteroids? When? Which one? > > https://www.cnet.com/pictures/swords-from-the-stars-weapons-forged-from-meteoric-iron/6/ > > > Sort of...Ah, the Terry Pratchett sword. Great story. -- Les Cargill
