On 12/13/21 11:01 PM, Don Y wrote:> On 12/13/2021 8:09 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >> I suffered an outage not that long ago that lasted 36 hours, or so. >> People in the nearby suburb were without power for a week. >> >> This was after a severe storm that brought down power poles and cables. >> >> Such things don't happen often, but when they do, being needlessly >> without the ability to cook things is really annoying. > > A bag of charcoal stored in a water-tight container (I use the > 5G paint containers leftover from roof painting) will address > that easily. >Charcoal? That's only for wimps :-) I cook over manzanita or almond wood, depending on the meat for that particular meal. When the power went for the first time around here (the famous Californian Gray-outs) my wife almost panicked because she had just started cooking an elaborate gourmet dinner. I fired up the barbie and then we had everything we wanted. Steaks, freshly baked bread, baked potatoes with sour cream, whiskey peppercorn sauce, steamed vegetables, followed by some sort of glazed dessert and, of course, espresso.> Or, having a tank of propane (for gas grill) on hand. >No way.> Or, a small bottle of propane (think: plumber's torch) > and a single-burner, portable "camp stove". >Ok, but then I'd rather use a few rocks and a few pieces of wire to hold a pot over the fire.> Or, genset that can deliver ~2KW (the load for a single > stovetop burner, on HIGH). >Glamping :-)> [dual-fuel giving you some flexibility, there] > > As our utilities are below grade, outages from storms, > drunk drivers, falling tree limbs, etc. are pretty rare.Much of California has among the highest electricity prices but a grid reliability like Romania in the 80's. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Bit rot in micro controllers?
Started by ●December 11, 2021
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
On 12/14/21 7:25 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >> mandag den 13. december 2021 kl. 18.28.33 UTC+1 skrev Joe Gwinn: >>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:15:52 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> >>> wrote: >>>> On 13-Dec-21 2:01 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:51:11 -0800, Joerg >>>>>> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just repaired our fridge when, according to Murphy's law, the next >>>>>>> appliance became shaky. Our pellet stove has twice refused to be >>>>>>> turned >>>>>>> off. Unfortunately, instead of analog it's all buttons that are >>>>>>> operated >>>>>>> via port pins of a micro controller. Pressing several of those >>>>>>> willy-nilly made the on/off button work, at least long enough to >>>>>>> turn it >>>>>>> off. When the circuit board is cold the botton always works but >>>>>>> not when >>>>>>> warm after running the stove overnight. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't want a kitchen stove that is uP controlled. That's a horrible >>>>>> environment for cheap electronics. If you want to buy a non-digital >>>>>> kitchen range, expect to pay a large multiple over the GE-type >>>>>> electronic junk. Wolf, Viking, Bosch do good brass. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our house came with a double oven. For some reason, one section has >>>>>> electronic controls and one has the classic pneumatic-mechanical >>>>>> thermostat. Guess which one still works. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> We have a separate gas cooktop, which has electronic ignition and >>>>> works >>>>> perfectly after 11 years. (We re-did the kitchen 11 hears ago.) >>>>> >>>>> Ditto for a wall-mounted double oven. The oven runs a separate fan to >>>>> keep the electronics cool, and has also worked fine that long. >>>>> >>>>> Dishwashers are the real horror for electronics--we've gone through >>>>> three of them in that time. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>> I had a gas oven that used electronics as a thermostat, with the gas >>>> turned on and off, rather than up and down. If it failed to reignite >>>> after about three tries, it just gave up, without so much as a >>>> warning beep. >>>> >>>> So one could come back after an hour and not only discover that the >>>> contents weren't cooked, one didn't even know how long it had been >>>> on for. >>>> >>>> Also, why would one want a gas oven that requires electric power to >>>> operate so that it cannot be used during a power outage? >>> We had those for a while here in the US. When I was recently looking >>> for a replacement stove (the old one having outlived its manufacturer >>> by a few decades, and spares were lo longer available), one question >>> is if one can use the stove without mains power. As you might >>> imagine, there was one correct answer, and a multitude of wrong >>> answers -- Next! >>> >>> The Thermador I bought has two burners that require mains power, but >>> the rest do not, but do require a manual lighter. The oven and >>> broiler also don't work without mains power. But four stovetop >>> burners suffices. >>> >>> This was a recent change - some friends nearby also have a similar >>> Thermador, and it is useless without mains power. >> >> last time I remember we had a powerout was something like 20 years ago >> and lasted a few hours >> >> > > You don't have actual weather, though. We get Atlantic hurricanes. We > had an outage 5 or so years ago that lasted (iirc) 8 days. > > I got on the Con Edison website, and mentally divided the number of > affected customers by the number being restored per hour, and got a > number like 10 days. > > There were no generators to be had locally by then, ...During an outage I called a store for something else and before the clerk that picked up the phone even said her name she proclaimed "We do not have any generators in stock".> ... so I got a 5 kW one > from Amazon and hired an electrician to put in a transfer switch and an > external feed inlet. I had power by day 3, but it cost about $1500 all > told. (Plus now I have to mess around with gas stabilizer and battery > tenders.) >That monster must consume gasoline to no end. I bought a 1700W/2000W inverter generator. It suffices to drive the big kitchen fridge/freezer and a small chest freezer downstairs. Plus the swamp cooler and a few little items such as lights or a TV set. It modulates the engine RPM according to load, spends much of its time in mid-idle and can run aboyut four hours on a galloin of gasoline. I use the stabilizer for storage purposes that is supposed to last two years. I also start the generator about once a month, to make sure the carburetor doesn't gunk up and to have peace of mind that it will start if needed. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
On 12/14/21 7:15 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Sylvia Else wrote:[...]>> So one could come back after an hour and not only discover that the >> contents weren't cooked, one didn't even know how long it had been on >> for. >> >> Also, why would one want a gas oven that requires electric power to >> operate so that it cannot be used during a power outage? > > Why would one want a gas oven, period? All that water vapour makes > pastry tough. Electric ovens, gas cooktops are the ticket. >Nah, a wood fire is the ticket. That's how I also bake pizza, rolls and bread. The real bread, German style with a crust that requires good chompers. Our house has an indoor cooking alcove for woord/charcoal cooking but I always do it outdoors. Rain or shine. Less messy, more manly :-) [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
On 12/14/2021 4:52 PM, Joerg wrote:> On 12/13/21 11:01 PM, Don Y wrote: >> On 12/13/2021 8:09 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>> I suffered an outage not that long ago that lasted 36 hours, or so. People >>> in the nearby suburb were without power for a week. >>> >>> This was after a severe storm that brought down power poles and cables. >>> >>> Such things don't happen often, but when they do, being needlessly without >>> the ability to cook things is really annoying. >> >> A bag of charcoal stored in a water-tight container (I use the >> 5G paint containers leftover from roof painting) will address >> that easily. > > Charcoal? That's only for wimps :-)Try burning a stump out of the ground with "a pile of wood".> I cook over manzanita or almond wood, depending on the meat for that particular > meal. When the power went for the first time around here (the famous > Californian Gray-outs) my wife almost panicked because she had just started > cooking an elaborate gourmet dinner. I fired up the barbie and then we had > everything we wanted. Steaks, freshly baked bread, baked potatoes with sour > cream, whiskey peppercorn sauce, steamed vegetables, followed by some sort of > glazed dessert and, of course, espresso. > >> Or, having a tank of propane (for gas grill) on hand. > > No way.Running a genset on wood is pretty tough...>> Or, a small bottle of propane (think: plumber's torch) >> and a single-burner, portable "camp stove". > > Ok, but then I'd rather use a few rocks and a few pieces of wire to hold a pot > over the fire. > >> Or, genset that can deliver ~2KW (the load for a single >> stovetop burner, on HIGH). > > Glamping :-) > >> [dual-fuel giving you some flexibility, there] >> >> As our utilities are below grade, outages from storms, >> drunk drivers, falling tree limbs, etc. are pretty rare. > > Much of California has among the highest electricity prices but a grid > reliability like Romania in the 80's.We (our house) have been caught downstream of two cable-segment faults. I believe there is one that hasn't yet failed between us and our nominal feed direction. Once that has failed and been replaced, we should be set for another 20+ years... [An amusing feeling to see homes "two doors down" with power while you sit in the dark. But, the outages are never long enough to warrant firing up the genset; the UPSs carry most of the important loads...] Other (older) parts of town still have flying power/phone distribution. I suspect they suffer more outages from the increased vulnerability of that distribution method.
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> tirsdag den 14. december 2021 kl. 16.25.53 UTC+1 skrev Phil Hobbs: >> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>> mandag den 13. december 2021 kl. 18.28.33 UTC+1 skrev Joe Gwinn: >>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:15:52 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On 13-Dec-21 2:01 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:51:11 -0800, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just repaired our fridge when, according to Murphy's law, the next >>>>>>>> appliance became shaky. Our pellet stove has twice refused to be turned >>>>>>>> off. Unfortunately, instead of analog it's all buttons that are operated >>>>>>>> via port pins of a micro controller. Pressing several of those >>>>>>>> willy-nilly made the on/off button work, at least long enough to turn it >>>>>>>> off. When the circuit board is cold the botton always works but not when >>>>>>>> warm after running the stove overnight. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't want a kitchen stove that is uP controlled. That's a horrible >>>>>>> environment for cheap electronics. If you want to buy a non-digital >>>>>>> kitchen range, expect to pay a large multiple over the GE-type >>>>>>> electronic junk. Wolf, Viking, Bosch do good brass. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our house came with a double oven. For some reason, one section has >>>>>>> electronic controls and one has the classic pneumatic-mechanical >>>>>>> thermostat. Guess which one still works. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> We have a separate gas cooktop, which has electronic ignition and works >>>>>> perfectly after 11 years. (We re-did the kitchen 11 hears ago.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Ditto for a wall-mounted double oven. The oven runs a separate fan to >>>>>> keep the electronics cool, and has also worked fine that long. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dishwashers are the real horror for electronics--we've gone through >>>>>> three of them in that time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>> I had a gas oven that used electronics as a thermostat, with the gas >>>>> turned on and off, rather than up and down. If it failed to reignite >>>>> after about three tries, it just gave up, without so much as a warning beep. >>>>> >>>>> So one could come back after an hour and not only discover that the >>>>> contents weren't cooked, one didn't even know how long it had been on for. >>>>> >>>>> Also, why would one want a gas oven that requires electric power to >>>>> operate so that it cannot be used during a power outage? >>>> We had those for a while here in the US. When I was recently looking >>>> for a replacement stove (the old one having outlived its manufacturer >>>> by a few decades, and spares were lo longer available), one question >>>> is if one can use the stove without mains power. As you might >>>> imagine, there was one correct answer, and a multitude of wrong >>>> answers -- Next! >>>> >>>> The Thermador I bought has two burners that require mains power, but >>>> the rest do not, but do require a manual lighter. The oven and >>>> broiler also don't work without mains power. But four stovetop >>>> burners suffices. >>>> >>>> This was a recent change - some friends nearby also have a similar >>>> Thermador, and it is useless without mains power. >>> >>> last time I remember we had a powerout was something like 20 years ago and lasted a few hours >>> >>> >> You don't have actual weather, though. We get Atlantic hurricanes. We >> had an outage 5 or so years ago that lasted (iirc) 8 days. > > put the cables under ground ;)But then when water gets in, you're out for weeks and weeks. No thanks. During Hurricane Floyd, we got over 60 cm of rain in a day, plus a number of washed-out roads. That will reliably do a job on underground mains. A dozen years later we had Hurricane Irene, which was smaller, but in my nabe was even worse because it washed out a short section of road that also had electric, gas, and water mains. The networks were well-designed, so most of the supply was restored quickly, but fixing the damage took a couple of months. As I said, you folks don't have real weather.>> >> I got on the Con Edison website, and mentally divided the number of >> affected customers by the number being restored per hour, and got a >> number like 10 days. >> >> There were no generators to be had locally by then, so I got a 5 kW one >> from Amazon and hired an electrician to put in a transfer switch and an >> external feed inlet. I had power by day 3, but it cost about $1500 all >> told. (Plus now I have to mess around with gas stabilizer and battery >> tenders.) >> Cheers > > get hybrid car, some of them have a pretty beefy inverter that runs off the main ~400V battery ;)What I actually did was to get a generic electric gas pump and some 5/8-inch tube, so that I can pump gas directly from my car to the genny, and then pump it back once power is restored. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
Joerg wrote:> On 12/14/21 7:25 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>> mandag den 13. december 2021 kl. 18.28.33 UTC+1 skrev Joe Gwinn: >>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:15:52 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On 13-Dec-21 2:01 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:51:11 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just repaired our fridge when, according to Murphy's law, the next >>>>>>>> appliance became shaky. Our pellet stove has twice refused to be >>>>>>>> turned >>>>>>>> off. Unfortunately, instead of analog it's all buttons that are >>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>> via port pins of a micro controller. Pressing several of those >>>>>>>> willy-nilly made the on/off button work, at least long enough to >>>>>>>> turn it >>>>>>>> off. When the circuit board is cold the botton always works but >>>>>>>> not when >>>>>>>> warm after running the stove overnight. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't want a kitchen stove that is uP controlled. That's a >>>>>>> horrible >>>>>>> environment for cheap electronics. If you want to buy a non-digital >>>>>>> kitchen range, expect to pay a large multiple over the GE-type >>>>>>> electronic junk. Wolf, Viking, Bosch do good brass. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our house came with a double oven. For some reason, one section has >>>>>>> electronic controls and one has the classic pneumatic-mechanical >>>>>>> thermostat. Guess which one still works. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> We have a separate gas cooktop, which has electronic ignition and >>>>>> works >>>>>> perfectly after 11 years. (We re-did the kitchen 11 hears ago.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Ditto for a wall-mounted double oven. The oven runs a separate >>>>>> fan to >>>>>> keep the electronics cool, and has also worked fine that long. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dishwashers are the real horror for electronics--we've gone through >>>>>> three of them in that time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>> I had a gas oven that used electronics as a thermostat, with the gas >>>>> turned on and off, rather than up and down. If it failed to reignite >>>>> after about three tries, it just gave up, without so much as a >>>>> warning beep. >>>>> >>>>> So one could come back after an hour and not only discover that the >>>>> contents weren't cooked, one didn't even know how long it had been >>>>> on for. >>>>> >>>>> Also, why would one want a gas oven that requires electric power to >>>>> operate so that it cannot be used during a power outage? >>>> We had those for a while here in the US. When I was recently looking >>>> for a replacement stove (the old one having outlived its manufacturer >>>> by a few decades, and spares were lo longer available), one question >>>> is if one can use the stove without mains power. As you might >>>> imagine, there was one correct answer, and a multitude of wrong >>>> answers -- Next! >>>> >>>> The Thermador I bought has two burners that require mains power, but >>>> the rest do not, but do require a manual lighter. The oven and >>>> broiler also don't work without mains power. But four stovetop >>>> burners suffices. >>>> >>>> This was a recent change - some friends nearby also have a similar >>>> Thermador, and it is useless without mains power. >>> >>> last time I remember we had a powerout was something like 20 years >>> ago and lasted a few hours >>> >>> >> >> You don't have actual weather, though. We get Atlantic hurricanes. >> We had an outage 5 or so years ago that lasted (iirc) 8 days. >> >> I got on the Con Edison website, and mentally divided the number of >> affected customers by the number being restored per hour, and got a >> number like 10 days. >> >> There were no generators to be had locally by then, ... > > > During an outage I called a store for something else and before the > clerk that picked up the phone even said her name she proclaimed "We do > not have any generators in stock". > > >> ... so I got a 5 kW one >> from Amazon and hired an electrician to put in a transfer switch and >> an external feed inlet. I had power by day 3, but it cost about $1500 >> all told. (Plus now I have to mess around with gas stabilizer and >> battery tenders.) >> > > That monster must consume gasoline to no end.Nah, under a gallon per hour while running the furnace, fridges, freezer, and computers. It runs toasters and microwaves fine, but tends to trip if people forget and use the garbage disposal. ;)h I bought a 1700W/2000W> inverter generator. It suffices to drive the big kitchen fridge/freezer > and a small chest freezer downstairs. Plus the swamp cooler and a few > little items such as lights or a TV set. It modulates the engine RPM > according to load, spends much of its time in mid-idle and can run > aboyut four hours on a galloin of gasoline.Depends a lot on the load. Our outages tend to be in the winter.> > I use the stabilizer for storage purposes that is supposed to last two > years. I also start the generator about once a month, to make sure the > carburetor doesn't gunk up and to have peace of mind that it will start > if needed.Letting it run dry is usually enough. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●December 14, 20212021-12-14
Phil Hobbs wrote:> Joerg wrote: >> On 12/14/21 7:25 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>> mandag den 13. december 2021 kl. 18.28.33 UTC+1 skrev Joe Gwinn: >>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:15:52 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On 13-Dec-21 2:01 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:51:11 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>>> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just repaired our fridge when, according to Murphy's law, the next >>>>>>>>> appliance became shaky. Our pellet stove has twice refused to >>>>>>>>> be turned >>>>>>>>> off. Unfortunately, instead of analog it's all buttons that are >>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>> via port pins of a micro controller. Pressing several of those >>>>>>>>> willy-nilly made the on/off button work, at least long enough >>>>>>>>> to turn it >>>>>>>>> off. When the circuit board is cold the botton always works but >>>>>>>>> not when >>>>>>>>> warm after running the stove overnight. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't want a kitchen stove that is uP controlled. That's a >>>>>>>> horrible >>>>>>>> environment for cheap electronics. If you want to buy a non-digital >>>>>>>> kitchen range, expect to pay a large multiple over the GE-type >>>>>>>> electronic junk. Wolf, Viking, Bosch do good brass. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our house came with a double oven. For some reason, one section has >>>>>>>> electronic controls and one has the classic pneumatic-mechanical >>>>>>>> thermostat. Guess which one still works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have a separate gas cooktop, which has electronic ignition and >>>>>>> works >>>>>>> perfectly after 11 years. (We re-did the kitchen 11 hears ago.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ditto for a wall-mounted double oven. The oven runs a separate >>>>>>> fan to >>>>>>> keep the electronics cool, and has also worked fine that long. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dishwashers are the real horror for electronics--we've gone through >>>>>>> three of them in that time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> >>>>>> I had a gas oven that used electronics as a thermostat, with the gas >>>>>> turned on and off, rather than up and down. If it failed to reignite >>>>>> after about three tries, it just gave up, without so much as a >>>>>> warning beep. >>>>>> >>>>>> So one could come back after an hour and not only discover that the >>>>>> contents weren't cooked, one didn't even know how long it had been >>>>>> on for. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, why would one want a gas oven that requires electric power to >>>>>> operate so that it cannot be used during a power outage? >>>>> We had those for a while here in the US. When I was recently looking >>>>> for a replacement stove (the old one having outlived its manufacturer >>>>> by a few decades, and spares were lo longer available), one question >>>>> is if one can use the stove without mains power. As you might >>>>> imagine, there was one correct answer, and a multitude of wrong >>>>> answers -- Next! >>>>> >>>>> The Thermador I bought has two burners that require mains power, but >>>>> the rest do not, but do require a manual lighter. The oven and >>>>> broiler also don't work without mains power. But four stovetop >>>>> burners suffices. >>>>> >>>>> This was a recent change - some friends nearby also have a similar >>>>> Thermador, and it is useless without mains power. >>>> >>>> last time I remember we had a powerout was something like 20 years >>>> ago and lasted a few hours >>>> >>>> >>> >>> You don't have actual weather, though. We get Atlantic hurricanes. >>> We had an outage 5 or so years ago that lasted (iirc) 8 days. >>> >>> I got on the Con Edison website, and mentally divided the number of >>> affected customers by the number being restored per hour, and got a >>> number like 10 days. >>> >>> There were no generators to be had locally by then, ... >> >> >> During an outage I called a store for something else and before the >> clerk that picked up the phone even said her name she proclaimed "We >> do not have any generators in stock". >> >> >>> ... so I got a 5 kW >>> one from Amazon and hired an electrician to put in a transfer switch >>> and an external feed inlet. I had power by day 3, but it cost about >>> $1500 all told. (Plus now I have to mess around with gas stabilizer >>> and battery tenders.) >>> >> >> That monster must consume gasoline to no end. > > Nah, underhalf a gallon per hour while running the furnace, fridges,> freezer, and computers. It runs toasters and microwaves fine, but tends > to trip if people forget and use the garbage disposal. ;)(it runs overnight on one 4-gallon tankful)> > I bought a 1700W/2000W >> inverter generator. It suffices to drive the big kitchen >> fridge/freezer and a small chest freezer downstairs. Plus the swamp >> cooler and a few little items such as lights or a TV set. It modulates >> the engine RPM according to load, spends much of its time in mid-idle >> and can run aboyut four hours on a galloin of gasoline. > > Depends a lot on the load. Our outages tend to be in the winter. >> >> I use the stabilizer for storage purposes that is supposed to last two >> years. I also start the generator about once a month, to make sure the >> carburetor doesn't gunk up and to have peace of mind that it will >> start if needed. > > Letting it run dry is usually enough. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs > >-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●December 15, 20212021-12-15
In article <a7db9567-a151-eaae-b434-130c8cca1f94@electrooptical.net>, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>> put the cables under ground ;) > >But then when water gets in, you're out for weeks and weeks. No thanks.I went to college in Rochester, New York, in an area which was lightly-reclaimed marshland. The college campus was relatively new, and all of the cables were buried. We could usually count on a substantial power outage in the dorms every year, when snow-melt season arrived and there was lots of standing water around. The annex holding the college computer center had the same problem (it was even closer to the water table). I don't recall the outages being more than a half-day or so - maybe there were secondary cables to which they could switch, while they fired up the trenching machines and dug up and replaced the shorted sections.
Reply by ●December 15, 20212021-12-15
On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Dec 2021 12:24:44 -0800) it happened Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <j1scseFca06U1@mid.individual.net>:>On 12/13/21 9:25 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:27:52 -0500, Spehro Pefhany >> <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:51:11 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Just repaired our fridge when, according to Murphy's law, the next >>>> appliance became shaky. Our pellet stove has twice refused to be turned >>>> off. Unfortunately, instead of analog it's all buttons that are operated >>>> via port pins of a micro controller. Pressing several of those >>>> willy-nilly made the on/off button work, at least long enough to turn it >>>> off. When the circuit board is cold the botton always works but not when >>>> warm after running the stove overnight. >>>> >>>> The micro controller is a Winbond W78E52BF-24 running on a 12MHz >>>> crystal. It is based on what they call electrically erasable MTP-ROM >>>> with which I assume they mean EEPROM. Date code is 2001 and that is also >>>> when we had that pellet stove installed. >>>> >>>> Can these things develop loss of flash memory (bit rot) this soon, after >>>> only two decades? Any remedy short or reprogramming or is it toast? >>> >>> 1. Yes it's possible. High temperatures will speed it up (that's how >>> they test retention). > > >That doesn't sound encouraging :-(Before you blame the processor, check for dirt accumulated on the button contacts, If the chip was wrong it likely would not work at all. Cooking and stuff like that causes all sort of vapors to solidify on mechanical contact. Simply wire a switch to test if that works? Check soldering, electrolytic caps, power supply voltage..
Reply by ●December 15, 20212021-12-15
On 12/14/21 4:38 PM, Don Y wrote:> On 12/14/2021 4:52 PM, Joerg wrote: >> On 12/13/21 11:01 PM, Don Y wrote: >>> On 12/13/2021 8:09 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>>> I suffered an outage not that long ago that lasted 36 hours, or so. >>>> People in the nearby suburb were without power for a week. >>>> >>>> This was after a severe storm that brought down power poles and cables. >>>> >>>> Such things don't happen often, but when they do, being needlessly >>>> without the ability to cook things is really annoying. >>> >>> A bag of charcoal stored in a water-tight container (I use the >>> 5G paint containers leftover from roof painting) will address >>> that easily. >> >> Charcoal? That's only for wimps :-) > > Try burning a stump out of the ground with "a pile of wood". >Why do you need to burn out a stump for cooking?>> I cook over manzanita or almond wood, depending on the meat for that >> particular meal. When the power went for the first time around here >> (the famous Californian Gray-outs) my wife almost panicked because she >> had just started cooking an elaborate gourmet dinner. I fired up the >> barbie and then we had everything we wanted. Steaks, freshly baked >> bread, baked potatoes with sour cream, whiskey peppercorn sauce, >> steamed vegetables, followed by some sort of glazed dessert and, of >> course, espresso. >> >>> Or, having a tank of propane (for gas grill) on hand.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^>> >> No way. > > Running a genset on wood is pretty tough... >Well, this was about a gas grill and there ain't never going to be no gas grill in this here yard :-)>>> Or, a small bottle of propane (think: plumber's torch) >>> and a single-burner, portable "camp stove". >> >> Ok, but then I'd rather use a few rocks and a few pieces of wire to >> hold a pot over the fire. >> >>> Or, genset that can deliver ~2KW (the load for a single >>> stovetop burner, on HIGH). >> >> Glamping :-) >> >>> [dual-fuel giving you some flexibility, there] >>> >>> As our utilities are below grade, outages from storms, >>> drunk drivers, falling tree limbs, etc. are pretty rare. >> >> Much of California has among the highest electricity prices but a grid >> reliability like Romania in the 80's. > > We (our house) have been caught downstream of two cable-segment > faults. I believe there is one that hasn't yet failed between > us and our nominal feed direction. Once that has failed and been > replaced, we should be set for another 20+ years... >PG&E said they'll shut us off early January for repairs. Hopefully that will make things more reliable. Electricity felt like a huge step back after moving from Europe to California. It's so unreliable here.> [An amusing feeling to see homes "two doors down" with power while > you sit in the dark. But, the outages are never long enough to > warrant firing up the genset; the UPSs carry most of the important > loads...] >I have a UPS for the wood stove fans. That will only run them for 30-40mins (with a new SLA battery). I could probably roach on a big LiFePO4 battery but that would now cost north of $200 and require some hack to reduce the charge-end voltage. Main thing, it's long enough right now until I've got the generator set up, cables run and started.> Other (older) parts of town still have flying power/phone > distribution. I suspect they suffer more outages from the > increased vulnerability of that distribution method.When my dad from Germany was here he said "A lot of stuff in America looks so kludged and temporary" :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
