On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:03:27 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:> >> on the input of my spectrum analyzer normally.Sampling heads, too.
Dutch scientists contradict scientists on settled science
Started by ●August 4, 2020
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On 2020-08-05 12:00, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 05 Aug 2020 10:51:52 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2020-08-04 15:51, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:30:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2020-08-04 13:47, Martin Brown wrote: >>>>> On 04/08/2020 19:39, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote: >>>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/amp/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The Dutch scientists do not follow science by continuing research >>>>>> after the science is settled. It must suck to live in a country with >>>>>> fake scientists. >>>>> >>>>> The science on wearing masks is rather limited. They certainly protect >>>>> the environment from the wearer but outdoors they are mostly irrelevant >>>>> provided that you keep your distance from others. Even that social >>>>> distancing varies quite remarkably with country 2m in the UK (except >>>>> where it is now 1m) and 6' (aka 1.5m) in most of the rest of the world. >>>>> >>>>> Actually they may well be right given just how badly the average member >>>>> of the public wear these masks it may just result in them having a false >>>>> sense of security. The Dutch approach of only wearing them on public >>>>> transport and in confined spaces may actually be more effective. >>>>> >>>>> People fiddle with their masks and touch their eyes way too often for >>>>> them to be effective as protection against infection. We are obliged now >>>>> to call them "face coverings" because "mask" is a four letter word! >>>>> >>>>> Holland is doing a much better job of it than their neighbour Belgium >>>>> where I used to live. Similar countries with similar population density >>>>> and demographics but a radically different approaches. Belgium's hard >>>>> lockdown has not served them at all well - it is unclear why at present. >>>>> >>>>> The Dutch must be doing something right so it is too soon to tell... >>>>> >>>> >>>> These are the official numbers from El Dorado County in California where >>>> I live, now that they (finally!) also list the recovered cases: >>>> >>>> http://analogconsultants.com/ng/sed/COVID_1.jpg >>>> >>>> Doesn't look like crisis-mode to me. About 200,000 residents, out of >>>> which one is in the hospital. One. New cases dropping off since about a >>>> month. The few remaining cases largely concentrate in areas such as Lake >>>> Tahoe where people from Silicon Valley have a vacation home or go >>>> gambling on the Nevada side of town during the day. >>>> >>>> New cases August-1: One. >>>> New cases August-2: Two. >>>> >>>> This is a conservative-minded county where people wear masks where it >>>> makes sense and not where some bureaucrat says. In the supermarket we >>>> do, of course. While walking the dogs? Heck no. >>>> >>>> Brewpubs will happily serve you a beer if you order some "token food" >>>> (mandated, for whatever stupid reason). >>>> >>>> It seems we must be doing something right in El Dorado County. Yes, >>>> Gerhard, this may be another planet after all and I like it :-) >>> >>> Worldometer reports one death total so far in your county, looks like >>> about July 1. Cases peaked mid-June and are way, way below peak now. >>> >> >> Partly that's because many idiot governors decided that protesting with >> looting, screaming, zero distancing and almost no mask is a "civil >> right" while religious services are not. That had to result in a peak. > > I'm in Nutcase City, where half the houses have BLM banners in the > windows, so I'm not in touch with many real people around the USA. > > I'd guess that a lot of quiet people in flyover country are getting > annoyed at the hysteria of the mainstream press, and the annoyance > (not to mention unemployment) will become votes in November. What's > your impression, where you are? >People here are very p....d about the governor shutting down places even in counties such as ours where the is no virus problem and never really was. I know how most of them will vote in November but it makes no difference in California. Just hoping that we won't fall into a socialist abyss as a country ...> >> >> Monday again we had two new cases. I think for our county the virus is >> pretty much done yet they keep us shut down (with some staunch >> resistance, of course). >> >> >>> Most everywhere you look, you see a bell-shaped blip of cases about a >>> month or so wide FWHM. That's the chracteristic waveform of this >>> thing. Mitigations may just change the shape, stretch out the tail or >>> create secondary peaks of similar shape. A few countries are showing >>> secondary case peaks bigger than the first peak, but looks like about >>> the same waveform. >>> >>> Maybe someone can answer my question: in places without lockdowns and >>> with low reported case totals, why do cases peak and fall off, to >>> close to zero? Where is the exponential growth? >>> >> >> I can't really answer that but part of the reason may be the overall >> health of the respective population. If you look at countries that did >> well without shutting down or with little in restrictions their people >> are mostly much less overweight, have less cardiovascular issues and are >> often very fit. In the US, ahem, well, we all know. > > SF has a lot of young, fit people. That might have helped to keep our > deaths down. It is kind of a mystery. >It does help. It also helps to be mindful about less fit and elderly people, take precautions, wear a mask when seeing them. Because us fit guys might have the virus at some point and never really feel it. The absolute worst is what Cuomo did, send COVID patients into (!) nursing homes. Unbelievable.>> >> People who are fit can often shake such a virus without much fuss. I >> know a couple where the whole family had hardcore telltale symptoms in >> February, became very sick but just a few days later came out of it. >> Those people don't get tested, they just cure it out and then go on with >> life. This family is very athletic. > > Mo and I are pretty sure we had it, in April. She works with a lot of > kids (nasty little drippy Petri dishes) and their parents, probably > got it and infected me. It wasn't real bad, but kind of wiped us out > for a few months. I'm just now getting perky again. >For a few months? Wow, yeah, that could have been it.>> >>> When I ask this question, people either ignore it or think they should >>> insult me instead of answering. >>> >> >> There are some people with whom discussions aren't really worthwhile >> because they instantly fly into tantrums and cheap ad hominem attacks. > > Right. Ignore them. >Yup :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
Am 05.08.20 um 20:51 schrieb Ricketty C:> It's very frustrating to try to discuss something when > the other person chooses to reject or ignore the facts."To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On 2020/08/05 10:51 a.m., Joerg wrote:> On 2020-08-04 15:51, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:30:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2020-08-04 13:47, Martin Brown wrote: >>>> On 04/08/2020 19:39, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote: >>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/amp/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The Dutch scientists do not follow science by continuing research >>>>> after the science is settled. It must suck to live in a country with >>>>> fake scientists. >>>> >>>> The science on wearing masks is rather limited. They certainly protect >>>> the environment from the wearer but outdoors they are mostly irrelevant >>>> provided that you keep your distance from others. Even that social >>>> distancing varies quite remarkably with country 2m in the UK (except >>>> where it is now 1m) and 6' (aka 1.5m) in most of the rest of the world. >>>> >>>> Actually they may well be right given just how badly the average member >>>> of the public wear these masks it may just result in them having a >>>> false >>>> sense of security. The Dutch approach of only wearing them on public >>>> transport and in confined spaces may actually be more effective. >>>> >>>> People fiddle with their masks and touch their eyes way too often for >>>> them to be effective as protection against infection. We are obliged >>>> now >>>> to call them "face coverings" because "mask" is a four letter word! >>>> >>>> Holland is doing a much better job of it than their neighbour Belgium >>>> where I used to live. Similar countries with similar population density >>>> and demographics but a radically different approaches. Belgium's hard >>>> lockdown has not served them at all well - it is unclear why at >>>> present. >>>> >>>> The Dutch must be doing something right so it is too soon to tell... >>>> >>> >>> These are the official numbers from El Dorado County in California where >>> I live, now that they (finally!) also list the recovered cases: >>> >>> http://analogconsultants.com/ng/sed/COVID_1.jpg >>> >>> Doesn't look like crisis-mode to me. About 200,000 residents, out of >>> which one is in the hospital. One. New cases dropping off since about a >>> month. The few remaining cases largely concentrate in areas such as Lake >>> Tahoe where people from Silicon Valley have a vacation home or go >>> gambling on the Nevada side of town during the day. >>> >>> New cases August-1: One. >>> New cases August-2: Two. >>> >>> This is a conservative-minded county where people wear masks where it >>> makes sense and not where some bureaucrat says. In the supermarket we >>> do, of course. While walking the dogs? Heck no. >>> >>> Brewpubs will happily serve you a beer if you order some "token food" >>> (mandated, for whatever stupid reason). >>> >>> It seems we must be doing something right in El Dorado County. Yes, >>> Gerhard, this may be another planet after all and I like it :-) >> >> Worldometer reports one death total so far in your county, looks like >> about July 1. Cases peaked mid-June and are way, way below peak now. >> > > Partly that's because many idiot governors decided that protesting with > looting, screaming, zero distancing and almost no mask is a "civil > right" while religious services are not. That had to result in a peak. > > Monday again we had two new cases. I think for our county the virus is > pretty much done yet they keep us shut down (with some staunch > resistance, of course). > > >> Most everywhere you look, you see a bell-shaped blip of cases about a >> month or so wide FWHM. That's the chracteristic waveform of this >> thing. Mitigations may just change the shape, stretch out the tail or >> create secondary peaks of similar shape. A few countries are showing >> secondary case peaks bigger than the first peak, but looks like about >> the same waveform. >> >> Maybe someone can answer my question: in places without lockdowns and >> with low reported case totals, why do cases peak and fall off, to >> close to zero? Where is the exponential growth? >> > > I can't really answer that but part of the reason may be the overall > health of the respective population. If you look at countries that did > well without shutting down or with little in restrictions their people > are mostly much less overweight, have less cardiovascular issues and are > often very fit. In the US, ahem, well, we all know. > > People who are fit can often shake such a virus without much fuss. I > know a couple where the whole family had hardcore telltale symptoms in > February, became very sick but just a few days later came out of it. > Those people don't get tested, they just cure it out and then go on with > life. This family is very athletic. > > >> When I ask this question, people either ignore it or think they should >> insult me instead of answering. >> > > There are some people with whom discussions aren't really worthwhile > because they instantly fly into tantrums and cheap ad hominem attacks. >Like Mr. Trump? John :-#)#
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 3:00:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 05 Aug 2020 10:51:52 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > > >On 2020-08-04 15:51, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:30:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On 2020-08-04 13:47, Martin Brown wrote: > >>>> On 04/08/2020 19:39, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote: > >>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/amp/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The Dutch scientists do not follow science by continuing research > >>>>> after the science is settled. It must suck to live in a country with > >>>>> fake scientists. > >>>> > >>>> The science on wearing masks is rather limited. They certainly protect > >>>> the environment from the wearer but outdoors they are mostly irrelevant > >>>> provided that you keep your distance from others. Even that social > >>>> distancing varies quite remarkably with country 2m in the UK (except > >>>> where it is now 1m) and 6' (aka 1.5m) in most of the rest of the world. > >>>> > >>>> Actually they may well be right given just how badly the average member > >>>> of the public wear these masks it may just result in them having a false > >>>> sense of security. The Dutch approach of only wearing them on public > >>>> transport and in confined spaces may actually be more effective. > >>>> > >>>> People fiddle with their masks and touch their eyes way too often for > >>>> them to be effective as protection against infection. We are obliged now > >>>> to call them "face coverings" because "mask" is a four letter word! > >>>> > >>>> Holland is doing a much better job of it than their neighbour Belgium > >>>> where I used to live. Similar countries with similar population density > >>>> and demographics but a radically different approaches. Belgium's hard > >>>> lockdown has not served them at all well - it is unclear why at present. > >>>> > >>>> The Dutch must be doing something right so it is too soon to tell... > >>>> > >>> > >>> These are the official numbers from El Dorado County in California where > >>> I live, now that they (finally!) also list the recovered cases: > >>> > >>> http://analogconsultants.com/ng/sed/COVID_1.jpg > >>> > >>> Doesn't look like crisis-mode to me. About 200,000 residents, out of > >>> which one is in the hospital. One. New cases dropping off since about a > >>> month. The few remaining cases largely concentrate in areas such as Lake > >>> Tahoe where people from Silicon Valley have a vacation home or go > >>> gambling on the Nevada side of town during the day. > >>> > >>> New cases August-1: One. > >>> New cases August-2: Two. > >>> > >>> This is a conservative-minded county where people wear masks where it > >>> makes sense and not where some bureaucrat says. In the supermarket we > >>> do, of course. While walking the dogs? Heck no. > >>> > >>> Brewpubs will happily serve you a beer if you order some "token food" > >>> (mandated, for whatever stupid reason). > >>> > >>> It seems we must be doing something right in El Dorado County. Yes, > >>> Gerhard, this may be another planet after all and I like it :-) > >> > >> Worldometer reports one death total so far in your county, looks like > >> about July 1. Cases peaked mid-June and are way, way below peak now. > >> > > > >Partly that's because many idiot governors decided that protesting with > >looting, screaming, zero distancing and almost no mask is a "civil > >right" while religious services are not. That had to result in a peak. > > I'm in Nutcase City, where half the houses have BLM banners in the > windows, so I'm not in touch with many real people around the USA.I wonder if they all support BLM, or if putting up the sign is part of virtue signalling. "I'm on your side, don't hurt me."> > I'd guess that a lot of quiet people in flyover country are getting > annoyed at the hysteria of the mainstream press, and the annoyance > (not to mention unemployment) will become votes in November. What's > your impression, where you are?I wonder if all the 'moderates' are getting sick of the extremes? I was talking with a local shop owner (who I know well... Trump supporter) and he was complaining about some of the right wing nut cases who come into his business and want to bitch about the left. Once you get away from the bigger towns you see no BLM banners. Mostly Trump 2020 signs, and the occasional confederate battle flag. George H.> > > > > > > > >Monday again we had two new cases. I think for our county the virus is > >pretty much done yet they keep us shut down (with some staunch > >resistance, of course). > > > > > >> Most everywhere you look, you see a bell-shaped blip of cases about a > >> month or so wide FWHM. That's the chracteristic waveform of this > >> thing. Mitigations may just change the shape, stretch out the tail or > >> create secondary peaks of similar shape. A few countries are showing > >> secondary case peaks bigger than the first peak, but looks like about > >> the same waveform. > >> > >> Maybe someone can answer my question: in places without lockdowns and > >> with low reported case totals, why do cases peak and fall off, to > >> close to zero? Where is the exponential growth? > >> > > > >I can't really answer that but part of the reason may be the overall > >health of the respective population. If you look at countries that did > >well without shutting down or with little in restrictions their people > >are mostly much less overweight, have less cardiovascular issues and are > >often very fit. In the US, ahem, well, we all know. > > SF has a lot of young, fit people. That might have helped to keep our > deaths down. It is kind of a mystery. > > > > >People who are fit can often shake such a virus without much fuss. I > >know a couple where the whole family had hardcore telltale symptoms in > >February, became very sick but just a few days later came out of it. > >Those people don't get tested, they just cure it out and then go on with > >life. This family is very athletic. > > Mo and I are pretty sure we had it, in April. She works with a lot of > kids (nasty little drippy Petri dishes) and their parents, probably > got it and infected me. It wasn't real bad, but kind of wiped us out > for a few months. I'm just now getting perky again. > > > > > > >> When I ask this question, people either ignore it or think they should > >> insult me instead of answering. > >> > > > >There are some people with whom discussions aren't really worthwhile > >because they instantly fly into tantrums and cheap ad hominem attacks. > > Right. Ignore them.
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 11:35:48 PM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 22:41:09 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> > wrote: > >Am 04.08.20 um 22:10 schrieb John Larkin: > > > >> > >> No-lockdown Sweden isn't doing as bad as some nearby countries. We'll > >> really find out in winter. > > > >Sometimes I wonder what is the color of the sky on your home planet. > > > >Only 40% more deaths per Meg of inhabitants than even US, or > 12 times > >more than neighboring Norway. Hotels were at 15% capacity, normally 75% > >in June. No wonder, nobody wants to visit the hotspot. > > > >Sweden's Nordic neighbors have opened the borders amongst each other, > >but not to Sweden. > > > >Dream on. > > > >Gerhard > Sweden is 569 PPM dead so far. Below Belguim, Spain, Italy, UK. So so > far, not an obviously catastrophic policy. Some european countries may > be starting ominous secondary bumps. There could well be a winter > effect coming too. >You cannot compare Sweden to Spain and Italy. Italy and Spain was hit hard in the beginning before anybody knew what was going on since they both have industrial areas linked directly with business with Wuhan The Swedes was just stupid and stubbornly insisted on their own strategy (the Chief virologist has admitted this)> Sweden's 7-day-averaged daily death rate is now zero. Zero is good. UK > is 64. > > If Sweden is not locked down, why has the death rate fallen to zero? > Why has it fallen at all, with total cases only 0.8% of the > population?It is a widespread falsehood that Sweden did nothing. They just didn't lock down everything, like restaurants and businesses Cheers Klaus
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:26:15 -0700 (PDT), George Herold <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:>On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 3:00:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 05 Aug 2020 10:51:52 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >> >On 2020-08-04 15:51, John Larkin wrote: >> >> On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:30:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 2020-08-04 13:47, Martin Brown wrote: >> >>>> On 04/08/2020 19:39, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote: >> >>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/amp/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The Dutch scientists do not follow science by continuing research >> >>>>> after the science is settled. It must suck to live in a country with >> >>>>> fake scientists. >> >>>> >> >>>> The science on wearing masks is rather limited. They certainly protect >> >>>> the environment from the wearer but outdoors they are mostly irrelevant >> >>>> provided that you keep your distance from others. Even that social >> >>>> distancing varies quite remarkably with country 2m in the UK (except >> >>>> where it is now 1m) and 6' (aka 1.5m) in most of the rest of the world. >> >>>> >> >>>> Actually they may well be right given just how badly the average member >> >>>> of the public wear these masks it may just result in them having a false >> >>>> sense of security. The Dutch approach of only wearing them on public >> >>>> transport and in confined spaces may actually be more effective. >> >>>> >> >>>> People fiddle with their masks and touch their eyes way too often for >> >>>> them to be effective as protection against infection. We are obliged now >> >>>> to call them "face coverings" because "mask" is a four letter word! >> >>>> >> >>>> Holland is doing a much better job of it than their neighbour Belgium >> >>>> where I used to live. Similar countries with similar population density >> >>>> and demographics but a radically different approaches. Belgium's hard >> >>>> lockdown has not served them at all well - it is unclear why at present. >> >>>> >> >>>> The Dutch must be doing something right so it is too soon to tell... >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> These are the official numbers from El Dorado County in California where >> >>> I live, now that they (finally!) also list the recovered cases: >> >>> >> >>> http://analogconsultants.com/ng/sed/COVID_1.jpg >> >>> >> >>> Doesn't look like crisis-mode to me. About 200,000 residents, out of >> >>> which one is in the hospital. One. New cases dropping off since about a >> >>> month. The few remaining cases largely concentrate in areas such as Lake >> >>> Tahoe where people from Silicon Valley have a vacation home or go >> >>> gambling on the Nevada side of town during the day. >> >>> >> >>> New cases August-1: One. >> >>> New cases August-2: Two. >> >>> >> >>> This is a conservative-minded county where people wear masks where it >> >>> makes sense and not where some bureaucrat says. In the supermarket we >> >>> do, of course. While walking the dogs? Heck no. >> >>> >> >>> Brewpubs will happily serve you a beer if you order some "token food" >> >>> (mandated, for whatever stupid reason). >> >>> >> >>> It seems we must be doing something right in El Dorado County. Yes, >> >>> Gerhard, this may be another planet after all and I like it :-) >> >> >> >> Worldometer reports one death total so far in your county, looks like >> >> about July 1. Cases peaked mid-June and are way, way below peak now. >> >> >> > >> >Partly that's because many idiot governors decided that protesting with >> >looting, screaming, zero distancing and almost no mask is a "civil >> >right" while religious services are not. That had to result in a peak. >> >> I'm in Nutcase City, where half the houses have BLM banners in the >> windows, so I'm not in touch with many real people around the USA. >I wonder if they all support BLM, or if putting up the sign is >part of virtue signalling. "I'm on your side, don't hurt me."We have a very small black population, and they don't pose a threat to anyone. It's just virtue signaling to the neighbors.>> >> I'd guess that a lot of quiet people in flyover country are getting >> annoyed at the hysteria of the mainstream press, and the annoyance >> (not to mention unemployment) will become votes in November. What's >> your impression, where you are? >I wonder if all the 'moderates' are getting sick of the extremes? >I was talking with a local shop owner (who I know well... Trump supporter) >and he was complaining about some of the right wing nut cases who come >into his business and want to bitch about the left. >Once you get away from the bigger towns you see no BLM banners. >Mostly Trump 2020 signs, and the occasional confederate battle flag. > >George H.I see mostly American flags, or the occasional Giants or 49ers flag. We have some Russian neighbors in Truckee, and they fly the American flag on July 4th too. I don't think that many people want to feel like they are racists or bigots, or want to feel that their country is founded on evil, or hate cops.
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On 2020-08-05, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:> > Monday again we had two new cases. I think for our county the virus is > pretty much done yet they keep us shut down (with some staunch > resistance, of course).The incubation period is up to two weeks before symptoms develop, so they need to persist for that long with no new unexplained cases to avoid a very nasty surprise. After that they still need to keep the borders with other places that are still infected closed, and quarrantine arrivals and contacts of the known cases etc. -- Jasen.
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On 8/5/2020 4:42 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:26:15 -0700 (PDT), George Herold > <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 3:00:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 05 Aug 2020 10:51:52 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2020-08-04 15:51, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:30:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2020-08-04 13:47, Martin Brown wrote: >>>>>>> On 04/08/2020 19:39, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote: >>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/amp/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Dutch scientists do not follow science by continuing research >>>>>>>> after the science is settled. It must suck to live in a country with >>>>>>>> fake scientists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The science on wearing masks is rather limited. They certainly protect >>>>>>> the environment from the wearer but outdoors they are mostly irrelevant >>>>>>> provided that you keep your distance from others. Even that social >>>>>>> distancing varies quite remarkably with country 2m in the UK (except >>>>>>> where it is now 1m) and 6' (aka 1.5m) in most of the rest of the world. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually they may well be right given just how badly the average member >>>>>>> of the public wear these masks it may just result in them having a false >>>>>>> sense of security. The Dutch approach of only wearing them on public >>>>>>> transport and in confined spaces may actually be more effective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> People fiddle with their masks and touch their eyes way too often for >>>>>>> them to be effective as protection against infection. We are obliged now >>>>>>> to call them "face coverings" because "mask" is a four letter word! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Holland is doing a much better job of it than their neighbour Belgium >>>>>>> where I used to live. Similar countries with similar population density >>>>>>> and demographics but a radically different approaches. Belgium's hard >>>>>>> lockdown has not served them at all well - it is unclear why at present. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Dutch must be doing something right so it is too soon to tell... >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> These are the official numbers from El Dorado County in California where >>>>>> I live, now that they (finally!) also list the recovered cases: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://analogconsultants.com/ng/sed/COVID_1.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> Doesn't look like crisis-mode to me. About 200,000 residents, out of >>>>>> which one is in the hospital. One. New cases dropping off since about a >>>>>> month. The few remaining cases largely concentrate in areas such as Lake >>>>>> Tahoe where people from Silicon Valley have a vacation home or go >>>>>> gambling on the Nevada side of town during the day. >>>>>> >>>>>> New cases August-1: One. >>>>>> New cases August-2: Two. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a conservative-minded county where people wear masks where it >>>>>> makes sense and not where some bureaucrat says. In the supermarket we >>>>>> do, of course. While walking the dogs? Heck no. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brewpubs will happily serve you a beer if you order some "token food" >>>>>> (mandated, for whatever stupid reason). >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems we must be doing something right in El Dorado County. Yes, >>>>>> Gerhard, this may be another planet after all and I like it :-) >>>>> >>>>> Worldometer reports one death total so far in your county, looks like >>>>> about July 1. Cases peaked mid-June and are way, way below peak now. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Partly that's because many idiot governors decided that protesting with >>>> looting, screaming, zero distancing and almost no mask is a "civil >>>> right" while religious services are not. That had to result in a peak. >>> >>> I'm in Nutcase City, where half the houses have BLM banners in the >>> windows, so I'm not in touch with many real people around the USA. >> I wonder if they all support BLM, or if putting up the sign is >> part of virtue signalling. "I'm on your side, don't hurt me." > > We have a very small black population, and they don't pose a threat to > anyone. It's just virtue signaling to the neighbors. > >>> >>> I'd guess that a lot of quiet people in flyover country are getting >>> annoyed at the hysteria of the mainstream press, and the annoyance >>> (not to mention unemployment) will become votes in November. What's >>> your impression, where you are? >> I wonder if all the 'moderates' are getting sick of the extremes? >> I was talking with a local shop owner (who I know well... Trump supporter) >> and he was complaining about some of the right wing nut cases who come >> into his business and want to bitch about the left. >> Once you get away from the bigger towns you see no BLM banners. >> Mostly Trump 2020 signs, and the occasional confederate battle flag. >> >> George H. > > I see mostly American flags, or the occasional Giants or 49ers flag. > > We have some Russian neighbors in Truckee, and they fly the American > flag on July 4th too. > > I don't think that many people want to feel like they are racists or > bigots, or want to feel that their country is founded on evil, or hate > cops. > >I wonder if the Trump administration considered authorizing deployment of Russian military advisors in leftist cities to defeat Antifa?
Reply by ●August 5, 20202020-08-05
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 18:36:42 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 8/5/2020 4:42 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:26:15 -0700 (PDT), George Herold >> <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 3:00:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 05 Aug 2020 10:51:52 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2020-08-04 15:51, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:30:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2020-08-04 13:47, Martin Brown wrote: >>>>>>>> On 04/08/2020 19:39, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/amp/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Dutch scientists do not follow science by continuing research >>>>>>>>> after the science is settled. It must suck to live in a country with >>>>>>>>> fake scientists. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The science on wearing masks is rather limited. They certainly protect >>>>>>>> the environment from the wearer but outdoors they are mostly irrelevant >>>>>>>> provided that you keep your distance from others. Even that social >>>>>>>> distancing varies quite remarkably with country 2m in the UK (except >>>>>>>> where it is now 1m) and 6' (aka 1.5m) in most of the rest of the world. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Actually they may well be right given just how badly the average member >>>>>>>> of the public wear these masks it may just result in them having a false >>>>>>>> sense of security. The Dutch approach of only wearing them on public >>>>>>>> transport and in confined spaces may actually be more effective. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> People fiddle with their masks and touch their eyes way too often for >>>>>>>> them to be effective as protection against infection. We are obliged now >>>>>>>> to call them "face coverings" because "mask" is a four letter word! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Holland is doing a much better job of it than their neighbour Belgium >>>>>>>> where I used to live. Similar countries with similar population density >>>>>>>> and demographics but a radically different approaches. Belgium's hard >>>>>>>> lockdown has not served them at all well - it is unclear why at present. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Dutch must be doing something right so it is too soon to tell... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These are the official numbers from El Dorado County in California where >>>>>>> I live, now that they (finally!) also list the recovered cases: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://analogconsultants.com/ng/sed/COVID_1.jpg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doesn't look like crisis-mode to me. About 200,000 residents, out of >>>>>>> which one is in the hospital. One. New cases dropping off since about a >>>>>>> month. The few remaining cases largely concentrate in areas such as Lake >>>>>>> Tahoe where people from Silicon Valley have a vacation home or go >>>>>>> gambling on the Nevada side of town during the day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New cases August-1: One. >>>>>>> New cases August-2: Two. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a conservative-minded county where people wear masks where it >>>>>>> makes sense and not where some bureaucrat says. In the supermarket we >>>>>>> do, of course. While walking the dogs? Heck no. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brewpubs will happily serve you a beer if you order some "token food" >>>>>>> (mandated, for whatever stupid reason). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems we must be doing something right in El Dorado County. Yes, >>>>>>> Gerhard, this may be another planet after all and I like it :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Worldometer reports one death total so far in your county, looks like >>>>>> about July 1. Cases peaked mid-June and are way, way below peak now. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Partly that's because many idiot governors decided that protesting with >>>>> looting, screaming, zero distancing and almost no mask is a "civil >>>>> right" while religious services are not. That had to result in a peak. >>>> >>>> I'm in Nutcase City, where half the houses have BLM banners in the >>>> windows, so I'm not in touch with many real people around the USA. >>> I wonder if they all support BLM, or if putting up the sign is >>> part of virtue signalling. "I'm on your side, don't hurt me." >> >> We have a very small black population, and they don't pose a threat to >> anyone. It's just virtue signaling to the neighbors. >> >>>> >>>> I'd guess that a lot of quiet people in flyover country are getting >>>> annoyed at the hysteria of the mainstream press, and the annoyance >>>> (not to mention unemployment) will become votes in November. What's >>>> your impression, where you are? >>> I wonder if all the 'moderates' are getting sick of the extremes? >>> I was talking with a local shop owner (who I know well... Trump supporter) >>> and he was complaining about some of the right wing nut cases who come >>> into his business and want to bitch about the left. >>> Once you get away from the bigger towns you see no BLM banners. >>> Mostly Trump 2020 signs, and the occasional confederate battle flag. >>> >>> George H. >> >> I see mostly American flags, or the occasional Giants or 49ers flag. >> >> We have some Russian neighbors in Truckee, and they fly the American >> flag on July 4th too. >> >> I don't think that many people want to feel like they are racists or >> bigots, or want to feel that their country is founded on evil, or hate >> cops. >> >> > >I wonder if the Trump administration considered authorizing deployment >of Russian military advisors in leftist cities to defeat Antifa?Don't be daft. Or boring.
