On 4/12/19 12:47 AM, pallison49@gmail.com wrote:> Sylvia Else raving nut case wrote: >> >> > http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2019/April/Nannies+want+to+stop+you+building+mains-powered+projects > >> >> >> The first think Nicholas Vinen should do is ask NSW Fair Trading which >> particular section of which particular law imposes a safety requirement >> on a magazine. >> > > > ** A magazine is a product and if it contains instructions that are hazardous to carry and/or contradict electrical safety law - Fair Trading has every right to be interested. > > In this case, Jaycar will soon be selling kits and instructions reprinted from the Silicon Chip magazine for anyone to purchase and have a go at producing their very own touch dimmer. The complaint may well contain that info but we are not privy to such detail. > > Wall plate dimmers are not allowed on sale unless type approved by a recognised agency and as stated in the editorial must only be installed by a licenced electrician. There is no way an electrician can legally install a home built, non approved dimmer - so kit buyers must do that themselves. > > The content of that editorial is entirely self serving. > > > > .... Phil > > > >Could you refresh the memory of the "younger audience" what a "wall plate dimmer" is, exactly? And what the danger is? A Google search seems to bring up various ads for general lighting products not terribly relevant. I don't know that I've ever seen one. I've seen the standard Diac + Triac + rheostat phase-shift incandescent dimmer circuit before, in books, I have a little book called "Industrial Transistor Circuits" from circa 1965 with a number of variations on it. Antique stuff...
Nannies want to stop you from building mains-powered projects
Started by ●April 11, 2019
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On Friday, April 12, 2019 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:> On 4/12/19 12:47 AM, pallison49@gmail.com wrote: > > Sylvia Else raving nut case wrote: > >> > >> > > http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2019/April/Nannies+want+to+stop+you+building+mains-powered+projects > > > >> > >> > >> The first think Nicholas Vinen should do is ask NSW Fair Trading which > >> particular section of which particular law imposes a safety requirement > >> on a magazine. > >> > > > > > > ** A magazine is a product and if it contains instructions that are hazardous to carry and/or contradict electrical safety law - Fair Trading has every right to be interested. > > > > In this case, Jaycar will soon be selling kits and instructions reprinted from the Silicon Chip magazine for anyone to purchase and have a go at producing their very own touch dimmer. The complaint may well contain that info but we are not privy to such detail. > > > > Wall plate dimmers are not allowed on sale unless type approved by a recognised agency and as stated in the editorial must only be installed by a licenced electrician. There is no way an electrician can legally install a home built, non approved dimmer - so kit buyers must do that themselves. > > > > The content of that editorial is entirely self serving. > > > > > > > > .... Phil > > > > > > > > > > Could you refresh the memory of the "younger audience" what a "wall > plate dimmer" is, exactly? And what the danger is? > > A Google search seems to bring up various ads for general lighting > products not terribly relevant. I don't know that I've ever seen one. > > I've seen the standard Diac + Triac + rheostat phase-shift incandescent > dimmer circuit before, in books, I have a little book called "Industrial > Transistor Circuits" from circa 1965 with a number of variations on it. > Antique stuff..."Wall plate dimmer" refers to a dimmer switch that replaces the standard switch behind a wall plate. I think in the UK their wall switches are a bit different, the switch might be mounted on the cover plate while in the US the switch goes in the box and the plate goes on top, but don't hold me to that. -- Rick C. -- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 21:03:37 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:>On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 10:14:49 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>Here are the numbers on electrocution deaths in Australia: >><https://www.ncis.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Electrocution-Deaths.pdf> >>Roughly, about 20 unintentional deaths per year. Instead of yet >>another regulation to protect some industry or job classification, I >>propose that 20 electricians be electrocuted by the state, thus >>satisfying the statistical requirement for human sacrifice.>Surprisingly many (1/3) were intentional deaths. What is included in >this count, also all Darwin Award winners ?Pg 1 General Summary Almost two-thirds (62.0%) of these deaths were unintentional. Additional NCIS database searches indicate that there are at least an additional 39 electrocution deaths still under coronial investigation. I read that to mean that the coroner has determined that 62% of electrocutions were accidental, and a remaining 39 electrocutions are still being investigated. Mixing units isn't very useful. That may have also been a typographic and arithmetic error where the authors meant 38%. My guess(tm) is that the remaining 38% deaths are either unknown, undecided, or may have been some form of "booby trap" murder. Difficult to tell without looking at the source data. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On 4/12/19 12:04 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:>> Could you refresh the memory of the "younger audience" what a "wall >> plate dimmer" is, exactly? And what the danger is? >> >> A Google search seems to bring up various ads for general lighting >> products not terribly relevant. I don't know that I've ever seen one. >> >> I've seen the standard Diac + Triac + rheostat phase-shift incandescent >> dimmer circuit before, in books, I have a little book called "Industrial >> Transistor Circuits" from circa 1965 with a number of variations on it. >> Antique stuff... > > "Wall plate dimmer" refers to a dimmer switch that replaces the standard switch behind a wall plate. I think in the UK their wall switches are a bit different, the switch might be mounted on the cover plate while in the US the switch goes in the box and the plate goes on top, but don't hold me to that. >Ah, I thought it was some kind of capacitive-thing. Regardless why is an electronics mag encouraging anyone to futz around with that old junk in 2019...
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On 12/04/2019 16:00, bitrex wrote:> Could you refresh the memory of the "younger audience" what a "wall > plate dimmer" is, exactly? And what the danger is? > > A Google search seems to bring up various ads for general lighting > products not terribly relevant. I don't know that I've ever seen one.Something like: https://www.screwfix.com/p/varilight-push-dimmer-1g-2-way-250w/34373 or could be a touch sensitive dimmer with no knob.> I've seen the standard Diac + Triac + rheostat phase-shift incandescent > dimmer circuit before, in books, I have a little book called "Industrial > Transistor Circuits" from circa 1965 with a number of variations on it. > Antique stuff...I made a magazine project mains (240V / UK) touch dimmer from a magazine when I was a kid. Bought the PCBs ready made which was about an inch square. Very safe design as one PBC was the touch sensor and you araldited that onto the backside of a plastic British format sqaure blanking plate (normally used to close off unused wiring boxes, or to contain lighting terminals). So electrocution was intrinsically impossible. Fire risk was low as most British houses then were brick or block walls - hard to set those alight. Worked quite well - bit sensitive to static, but some anti static furniture polish seemed to fix that. Hardest bit was that the 2 PCBs were stacked with soldered sewing pins. These are steel. So a bugger to solder with 60/40. Luckily my dad had some Bakers Fluid flux that did the job. -- Email does not work
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:53:51 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:> I think there's every reason to be concerned about creeping > nanny-stateism.I fully agree, there's just no end to it all. Ignore Alison. He has an extreme phobia of electricity and won't even take the lid off a microwave to replace a blown fuse! One has to wonder why he ever became a service engineer in the first place; very poor choice of career for someone like that. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
There is way more reason to be concerned about RABID NUT CASES like Alison posting fucking absurd advice. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 02:45:36 -0700, Winfield Hill wrote:> N_Cook wrote... >> >> My mummy (too impoversished for a nanny) never warned me to never go >> near the 240V that can leak out of our sockets in the UK. > > And what happened?He clearly didn't die, so all worked out fine in the end. No irrational fears to hold him back. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:53:51 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:>On 12/04/2019 2:47 pm, pallison49@gmail.com wrote: >> Sylvia Else raving nut case wrote: >>> >>> >> http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2019/April/Nannies+want+to+stop+you+building+mains-powered+projects >> >> >>> >>> >>> The first think Nicholas Vinen should do is ask NSW Fair Trading >>> which particular section of which particular law imposes a safety >>> requirement on a magazine. >>> >> >> >> ** A magazine is a product and if it contains instructions that are >> hazardous to carry and/or contradict electrical safety law - Fair >> Trading has every right to be interested. > >Build mains-powered gear is not inherently hazardous, and the resulting >equipment can be lawfully connected to the mains in NSW if it's done by >way a plug into a power socket. > >> >> In this case, Jaycar will soon be selling kits and instructions >> reprinted from the Silicon Chip magazine for anyone to purchase and >> have a go at producing their very own touch dimmer. The complaint may >> well contain that info but we are not privy to such detail. > >If Jaycar do that, that's a matter for them, not for Silicon Chip. >> >> Wall plate dimmers are not allowed on sale unless type approved by a >> recognised agency and as stated in the editorial must only be >> installed by a licenced electrician. There is no way an electrician >> can legally install a home built, non approved dimmer - so kit buyers >> must do that themselves. > >Or not connect them that way.We have a Tek TPS2000 scope, where all the inputs (including trigger) are isolated. So you can hang a probe ground clip anywhere in a line-powered circuit. That's very helpful.> >I think there's every reason to be concerned about creeping nanny-stateism. > >Sylvia.There is a movement back to old-fashioned free-range children. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●April 12, 20192019-04-12
On 2019-04-12, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:> On 4/12/19 12:47 AM, pallison49@gmail.com wrote: >> Sylvia Else raving nut case wrote: >>> >>> >> http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2019/April/Nannies+want+to+stop+you+building+mains-powered+projects >> >>> >>> >>> The first think Nicholas Vinen should do is ask NSW Fair Trading which >>> particular section of which particular law imposes a safety requirement >>> on a magazine. >>> >> >> >> ** A magazine is a product and if it contains instructions that are hazardous to carry and/or contradict electrical safety law - Fair Trading has every right to be interested. >> >> In this case, Jaycar will soon be selling kits and instructions reprinted from the Silicon Chip magazine for anyone to purchase and have a go at producing their very own touch dimmer. The complaint may well contain that info but we are not privy to such detail. >> >> Wall plate dimmers are not allowed on sale unless type approved by a recognised agency and as stated in the editorial must only be installed by a licenced electrician. There is no way an electrician can legally install a home built, non approved dimmer - so kit buyers must do that themselves. >> >> The content of that editorial is entirely self serving. >> > > Could you refresh the memory of the "younger audience" what a "wall > plate dimmer" is, exactly? And what the danger is?A wall plate screws to a wall box. which in Australia is the same size and shape as the US wall boxes used for light switches and plug outlets etc. A touch dimmer uses touch sensing to control the brightness. I remeber in the 80s or 90s EA (I think) published a wall plate touch dimmer project based around some touch dimmer IC, a commodity triac, and a metal-faced blank wall plate. IIRC subsquent issues of the mag had a bunch of people making similar complaints to those described here in letters to the editor. maybe they sholud do a touch dimmer that puts out a control signal for LED dimming, that can all be extra low voltage and possibly free of legal hassles. -- When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
