On 11/27/2018 04:54 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:36:56 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote: >> >> The Volt was a marvelous car for what they spent on R&D on it, which was >> essentially peanuts of anyone's money, their own or the governments >> regardless, as compared to the $HUGENUM sums Musk and co have spent to >> develop the Model 3. >> >> Circa late 2008 the entire Volt design team consisted of about a >> half-dozen guys total and it was ready for full scale production by the >> 2011 model year. >> >> I would surely hope the Model 3 is a better car considering what we've >> paid for it! > > Yeah! It's surprising that if you only spend a little in development you end up with a car few people want. Oh, wait, that's *not* surprising I guess. > > Well, good thing for the Tesla investors that they spent so much money developing a car that they can't sell them fast enough. > > Rick C. > > Tesla referral code --+ https://ts.la/richard11209 >They're still fulfilling years worth of pre-orders last I looked, those cars were already sold.
GM Is Dropping the Volt
Started by ●November 27, 2018
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 11/27/2018 05:24 PM, Joerg wrote:> On 2018-11-27 13:08, bitrex wrote: >> On 11/27/2018 03:45 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2018-11-27 12:35, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 11/27/2018 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in >>>>>>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid >>>>>>>>>> auto >>>>>>>>>> with a lot going for it. I'm sorry to see it go. I wonder why >>>>>>>>>> sales >>>>>>>>>> were never very high? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A bad model, IMO. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt $582 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius $423 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> improvement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this >>>>>> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already >>>>>> wanted >>>>>> one, they sold around 250k of them I think. >>>>>> >>>>>> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without >>>>>> breaking >>>>>> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery >>>>>> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do >>>>>> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a crossover or >>>>>> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it. >>>>>> >>>>>> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a high of >>>>>> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it better >>>>>> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever >>>>>> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly >>>>>> sensible to me >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate replacement >>>>> in that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an >>>>> obsolescence before that is the case. >>>> >>>> They do, the all-electric Bolt crossover SUV. It's expected that class >>>> of vehicle will be GM's way forward with electric vehicle technology. >>>> >>> >>> All-electric is _not_ the same market segment at all. Those cars are >>> not suitable for anyone who has to occasionally use them long distance >>> or lives in a place with a very harsh winter. >>> >>> A hybrid can only be replaced by another hybrid or the customers will >>> flock to the competition. >> >> They're selling pretty good in Korea, Americans hate small cars in >> general, the managers of the big old guard US automakers hate them too >> for their low margins. >> > > Then I wonder why there are all those small cars in our neighborhood. > Toyota Corolla (we've got one as well), VW Jetta, various small Subaru, > Nissan Sentra, Fiat 500, and so on. Heck, even little Smart cars. > > Americans like big trucks. Bigger is better. However, that's not so much > the case anymore for sedans. Even the last hold-out family (they had a > beautiful full-size Cadillac sedan in pearl-white) has now switched to a > small Japanese car. This is a normal middle-class neighborhood, almost > suburban. > > >>>>> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many >>>>> times before. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Circa 2010 the Volt was impressive on paper as both a pure hybrid car >>>> and an electric vehicle. >>>> >>>> Since then ICE efficiency and pure-hybrid technology has improved >>>> somewhat, and all-electric technology has improved a lot. >>>> >>>> The Volt's specs, even the second gen, aren't really impressive anymore >>>> as either an electric car based on range or charging time, or a >>>> gas-hybrid as compared to say the current gen Prius. And while some >>>> people who really value flexibility will still buy it I think it's hard >>>> to sell a car based on ambiguous "gender identity" alone. >>> >>> >>> True, it has to sell on its merits. Aside from performance specs that >>> is predominantly the price and even more so the reputation in terms of >>> reliability. The latter is the reason why we bought two Japanese >>> vehicles when we moved to the US. Well, the Toyota was actually >>> manufacturered in the US so it has supported American jobs. >>> >> >> There are or were plans to sell a re-badged variant of the Volt in China >> under the Buick marque, which has brand-name cachet there in the way BMW >> does in America. Don't know if those are off now too or not. I think the >> plan was to manufacture them there anyway. > > > I think the Chinese don't like us much right now :-) >Don't think it matters much from an individual consumer's perspective, attempts at campaigns to reject luxury/cool product X on arguments of jingoism are rarely successful. If it's cool to drive a Buick in China Chinese consumers will buy 'em it doesn't matter much what politics is going on. See also America, BMW, Mercedes.
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 11/27/2018 05:34 PM, bitrex wrote:> On 11/27/2018 05:24 PM, Joerg wrote: >> On 2018-11-27 13:08, bitrex wrote: >>> On 11/27/2018 03:45 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2018-11-27 12:35, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 11/27/2018 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in >>>>>>>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid >>>>>>>>>>> auto >>>>>>>>>>> with a lot going for it. I'm sorry to see it go. I wonder why >>>>>>>>>>> sales >>>>>>>>>>> were never very high? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A bad model, IMO. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt $582 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius $423 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> improvement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this >>>>>>> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already >>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>> one, they sold around 250k of them I think. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery >>>>>>> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do >>>>>>> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a >>>>>>> crossover or >>>>>>> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a >>>>>>> high of >>>>>>> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it >>>>>>> better >>>>>>> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever >>>>>>> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly >>>>>>> sensible to me >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate replacement >>>>>> in that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an >>>>>> obsolescence before that is the case. >>>>> >>>>> They do, the all-electric Bolt crossover SUV. It's expected that class >>>>> of vehicle will be GM's way forward with electric vehicle technology. >>>>> >>>> >>>> All-electric is _not_ the same market segment at all. Those cars are >>>> not suitable for anyone who has to occasionally use them long distance >>>> or lives in a place with a very harsh winter. >>>> >>>> A hybrid can only be replaced by another hybrid or the customers will >>>> flock to the competition. >>> >>> They're selling pretty good in Korea, Americans hate small cars in >>> general, the managers of the big old guard US automakers hate them too >>> for their low margins. >>> >> >> Then I wonder why there are all those small cars in our neighborhood. >> Toyota Corolla (we've got one as well), VW Jetta, various small >> Subaru, Nissan Sentra, Fiat 500, and so on. Heck, even little Smart cars. >> >> Americans like big trucks. Bigger is better. However, that's not so >> much the case anymore for sedans. Even the last hold-out family (they >> had a beautiful full-size Cadillac sedan in pearl-white) has now >> switched to a small Japanese car. This is a normal middle-class >> neighborhood, almost suburban. >> >> >>>>>> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many >>>>>> times before. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Circa 2010 the Volt was impressive on paper as both a pure hybrid car >>>>> and an electric vehicle. >>>>> >>>>> Since then ICE efficiency and pure-hybrid technology has improved >>>>> somewhat, and all-electric technology has improved a lot. >>>>> >>>>> The Volt's specs, even the second gen, aren't really impressive >>>>> anymore >>>>> as either an electric car based on range or charging time, or a >>>>> gas-hybrid as compared to say the current gen Prius. And while some >>>>> people who really value flexibility will still buy it I think it's >>>>> hard >>>>> to sell a car based on ambiguous "gender identity" alone. >>>> >>>> >>>> True, it has to sell on its merits. Aside from performance specs that >>>> is predominantly the price and even more so the reputation in terms of >>>> reliability. The latter is the reason why we bought two Japanese >>>> vehicles when we moved to the US. Well, the Toyota was actually >>>> manufacturered in the US so it has supported American jobs. >>>> >>> >>> There are or were plans to sell a re-badged variant of the Volt in China >>> under the Buick marque, which has brand-name cachet there in the way BMW >>> does in America. Don't know if those are off now too or not. I think the >>> plan was to manufacture them there anyway. >> >> >> I think the Chinese don't like us much right now :-) >> > > Don't think it matters much from an individual consumer's perspective, > attempts at campaigns to reject luxury/cool product X on arguments of > jingoism are rarely successful. > > If it's cool to drive a Buick in China Chinese consumers will buy 'em it > doesn't matter much what politics is going on. See also America, BMW, > Mercedes.That is to say all-out war might stop the flow for a little while, but not for long
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 11/27/2018 05:16 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:> bitrex wrote... >> >> Also the Prius is a slushbox and looks like a dog's dinner. > > The Prius, yes. Not the Prius Prime, a new design, > check it out, very stylish, good and inside viewing. > >Still has the 10 second 0-60 time problem. This isn't an issue for a lot of drivers. The Volt's is more like 7 seconds or slightly less, it's the difference between a car that you have to drive and a car that's really fun to drive. I tried the Prius Prime it was okay. I got the Volt on how enormously fun it is to zip away from a red light with the dash power bargraph meter hitting 100 kilowatts output power to the powertrain and a very satisfying soft "Skreeeeeee!" rising tone coming from the main drive motor sucking down the juice, like something from Star Trek. other than totally silent just the tire noise and warm summer breeze coming in the window. It's a different experience than any other hybrid or plug-in hybrid I've driven before, very cool and unique and it would probably still be in production if more people who were considering a Prius were able to have it.
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 2018-11-27 14:35, bitrex wrote:> On 11/27/2018 05:34 PM, bitrex wrote: >> On 11/27/2018 05:24 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2018-11-27 13:08, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 11/27/2018 03:45 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> On 2018-11-27 12:35, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 11/27/2018 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in >>>>>>>>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent >>>>>>>>>>>> hybrid >>>>>>>>>>>> auto >>>>>>>>>>>> with a lot going for it. I'm sorry to see it go. I wonder why >>>>>>>>>>>> sales >>>>>>>>>>>> were never very high? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A bad model, IMO. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt $582 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius $423 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> improvement. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this >>>>>>>> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already >>>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>>> one, they sold around 250k of them I think. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a >>>>>>>> battery >>>>>>>> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. >>>>>>>> To do >>>>>>>> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a >>>>>>>> crossover or >>>>>>>> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a >>>>>>>> high of >>>>>>>> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever >>>>>>>> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems >>>>>>>> fairly >>>>>>>> sensible to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate >>>>>>> replacement >>>>>>> in that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an >>>>>>> obsolescence before that is the case. >>>>>> >>>>>> They do, the all-electric Bolt crossover SUV. It's expected that >>>>>> class >>>>>> of vehicle will be GM's way forward with electric vehicle technology. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All-electric is _not_ the same market segment at all. Those cars are >>>>> not suitable for anyone who has to occasionally use them long distance >>>>> or lives in a place with a very harsh winter. >>>>> >>>>> A hybrid can only be replaced by another hybrid or the customers will >>>>> flock to the competition. >>>> >>>> They're selling pretty good in Korea, Americans hate small cars in >>>> general, the managers of the big old guard US automakers hate them too >>>> for their low margins. >>>> >>> >>> Then I wonder why there are all those small cars in our neighborhood. >>> Toyota Corolla (we've got one as well), VW Jetta, various small >>> Subaru, Nissan Sentra, Fiat 500, and so on. Heck, even little Smart >>> cars. >>> >>> Americans like big trucks. Bigger is better. However, that's not so >>> much the case anymore for sedans. Even the last hold-out family (they >>> had a beautiful full-size Cadillac sedan in pearl-white) has now >>> switched to a small Japanese car. This is a normal middle-class >>> neighborhood, almost suburban. >>> >>> >>>>>>> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many >>>>>>> times before. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Circa 2010 the Volt was impressive on paper as both a pure hybrid car >>>>>> and an electric vehicle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since then ICE efficiency and pure-hybrid technology has improved >>>>>> somewhat, and all-electric technology has improved a lot. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Volt's specs, even the second gen, aren't really impressive >>>>>> anymore >>>>>> as either an electric car based on range or charging time, or a >>>>>> gas-hybrid as compared to say the current gen Prius. And while some >>>>>> people who really value flexibility will still buy it I think it's >>>>>> hard >>>>>> to sell a car based on ambiguous "gender identity" alone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> True, it has to sell on its merits. Aside from performance specs that >>>>> is predominantly the price and even more so the reputation in terms of >>>>> reliability. The latter is the reason why we bought two Japanese >>>>> vehicles when we moved to the US. Well, the Toyota was actually >>>>> manufacturered in the US so it has supported American jobs. >>>>> >>>> >>>> There are or were plans to sell a re-badged variant of the Volt in >>>> China >>>> under the Buick marque, which has brand-name cachet there in the way >>>> BMW >>>> does in America. Don't know if those are off now too or not. I think >>>> the >>>> plan was to manufacture them there anyway. >>> >>> >>> I think the Chinese don't like us much right now :-) >>> >> >> Don't think it matters much from an individual consumer's perspective, >> attempts at campaigns to reject luxury/cool product X on arguments of >> jingoism are rarely successful. >> >> If it's cool to drive a Buick in China Chinese consumers will buy 'em >> it doesn't matter much what politics is going on. See also America, >> BMW, Mercedes. > > That is to say all-out war might stop the flow for a little while, but > not for longEven not taking part in a war can curb consumption of goods from certain countries. I remember when France refused to participate in military action after 9/11 a lot of people in this area where so p....d that they refused to buy anything French. They stuck to that for more than a year and those were people who otherwise really liked expensive French Cognac, cheese and so on. Right now the Chinese government made sure that less people will be able to afford an American car, so sales go down. https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-car-makers-left-in-the-dust-as-chinas-tariff-cuts-boost-europe-japan-1533901068 Of course, a guy who is hellbent on buying a Mustang GT with the full Roush kit to impress the ladies will buy one no matter what. But sales in general go down. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 11/27/2018 06:00 PM, Joerg wrote:> On 2018-11-27 14:35, bitrex wrote: >> On 11/27/2018 05:34 PM, bitrex wrote: >>> On 11/27/2018 05:24 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2018-11-27 13:08, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 11/27/2018 03:45 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> On 2018-11-27 12:35, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in >>>>>>>>>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent >>>>>>>>>>>>> hybrid >>>>>>>>>>>>> auto >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a lot going for it. I'm sorry to see it go. I wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>> sales >>>>>>>>>>>>> were never very high? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A bad model, IMO. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt $582 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius $423 Average Annual Repair Cost" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously >>>>>>>>>> room >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> improvement. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already >>>>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>>>> one, they sold around 250k of them I think. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without >>>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>>> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a >>>>>>>>> battery >>>>>>>>> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. >>>>>>>>> To do >>>>>>>>> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a >>>>>>>>> crossover or >>>>>>>>> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a >>>>>>>>> high of >>>>>>>>> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it >>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for >>>>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>>>> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems >>>>>>>>> fairly >>>>>>>>> sensible to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate >>>>>>>> replacement >>>>>>>> in that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an >>>>>>>> obsolescence before that is the case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They do, the all-electric Bolt crossover SUV. It's expected that >>>>>>> class >>>>>>> of vehicle will be GM's way forward with electric vehicle >>>>>>> technology. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All-electric is _not_ the same market segment at all. Those cars are >>>>>> not suitable for anyone who has to occasionally use them long >>>>>> distance >>>>>> or lives in a place with a very harsh winter. >>>>>> >>>>>> A hybrid can only be replaced by another hybrid or the customers will >>>>>> flock to the competition. >>>>> >>>>> They're selling pretty good in Korea, Americans hate small cars in >>>>> general, the managers of the big old guard US automakers hate them too >>>>> for their low margins. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Then I wonder why there are all those small cars in our neighborhood. >>>> Toyota Corolla (we've got one as well), VW Jetta, various small >>>> Subaru, Nissan Sentra, Fiat 500, and so on. Heck, even little Smart >>>> cars. >>>> >>>> Americans like big trucks. Bigger is better. However, that's not so >>>> much the case anymore for sedans. Even the last hold-out family (they >>>> had a beautiful full-size Cadillac sedan in pearl-white) has now >>>> switched to a small Japanese car. This is a normal middle-class >>>> neighborhood, almost suburban. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many >>>>>>>> times before. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Circa 2010 the Volt was impressive on paper as both a pure hybrid >>>>>>> car >>>>>>> and an electric vehicle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since then ICE efficiency and pure-hybrid technology has improved >>>>>>> somewhat, and all-electric technology has improved a lot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Volt's specs, even the second gen, aren't really impressive >>>>>>> anymore >>>>>>> as either an electric car based on range or charging time, or a >>>>>>> gas-hybrid as compared to say the current gen Prius. And while some >>>>>>> people who really value flexibility will still buy it I think it's >>>>>>> hard >>>>>>> to sell a car based on ambiguous "gender identity" alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> True, it has to sell on its merits. Aside from performance specs that >>>>>> is predominantly the price and even more so the reputation in >>>>>> terms of >>>>>> reliability. The latter is the reason why we bought two Japanese >>>>>> vehicles when we moved to the US. Well, the Toyota was actually >>>>>> manufacturered in the US so it has supported American jobs. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There are or were plans to sell a re-badged variant of the Volt in >>>>> China >>>>> under the Buick marque, which has brand-name cachet there in the way >>>>> BMW >>>>> does in America. Don't know if those are off now too or not. I think >>>>> the >>>>> plan was to manufacture them there anyway. >>>> >>>> >>>> I think the Chinese don't like us much right now :-) >>>> >>> >>> Don't think it matters much from an individual consumer's perspective, >>> attempts at campaigns to reject luxury/cool product X on arguments of >>> jingoism are rarely successful. >>> >>> If it's cool to drive a Buick in China Chinese consumers will buy 'em >>> it doesn't matter much what politics is going on. See also America, >>> BMW, Mercedes. >> >> That is to say all-out war might stop the flow for a little while, but >> not for long > > > Even not taking part in a war can curb consumption of goods from certain > countries. I remember when France refused to participate in military > action after 9/11 a lot of people in this area where so p....d that they > refused to buy anything French. They stuck to that for more than a year > and those were people who otherwise really liked expensive French > Cognac, cheese and so on.A very American thing to do. If Americans had wanted to do something meaningful after 9/11 they could have stopped buying Saudi oil en masse, they were the ones who did it after all! Wasn't the flippin' French they wanted to stay out of that Afghanistan mess like smart people. Why we ever sent these Saudis a single penny ever again for anything after that one I couldn't tell ya.> Right now the Chinese government made sure that less people will be able > to afford an American car, so sales go down. > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-car-makers-left-in-the-dust-as-chinas-tariff-cuts-boost-europe-japan-1533901068 > > > Of course, a guy who is hellbent on buying a Mustang GT with the full > Roush kit to impress the ladies will buy one no matter what. But sales > in general go down. >Always go on a first date in the most pedestrian car you own. For me that's the Volt and my Volt has probably seen more young lady butts in the passenger seat than the majority of Mustangs out there. :)
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 11/27/2018 06:18 PM, bitrex wrote:>> Even not taking part in a war can curb consumption of goods from >> certain countries. I remember when France refused to participate in >> military action after 9/11 a lot of people in this area where so >> p....d that they refused to buy anything French. They stuck to that >> for more than a year and those were people who otherwise really liked >> expensive French Cognac, cheese and so on. > > A very American thing to do. If Americans had wanted to do something > meaningful after 9/11 they could have stopped buying Saudi oil en masse, > they were the ones who did it after all! Wasn't the flippin' French they > wanted to stay out of that Afghanistan mess like smart people. > > Why we ever sent these Saudis a single penny ever again for anything > after that one I couldn't tell ya.If they sell more EVs worldwide it can only be for the good, time to make these terrorists go get real jobs now. No time for terror when you have to work a real job.
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:26:51 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:> On 11/27/2018 04:54 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:36:56 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote: > >> > >> The Volt was a marvelous car for what they spent on R&D on it, which was > >> essentially peanuts of anyone's money, their own or the governments > >> regardless, as compared to the $HUGENUM sums Musk and co have spent to > >> develop the Model 3. > >> > >> Circa late 2008 the entire Volt design team consisted of about a > >> half-dozen guys total and it was ready for full scale production by the > >> 2011 model year. > >> > >> I would surely hope the Model 3 is a better car considering what we've > >> paid for it! > > > > Yeah! It's surprising that if you only spend a little in development you end up with a car few people want. Oh, wait, that's *not* surprising I guess. > > > > Well, good thing for the Tesla investors that they spent so much money developing a car that they can't sell them fast enough. > > > > Rick C. > > > > Tesla referral code --+ https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > > They're still fulfilling years worth of pre-orders last I looked, those > cars were already sold.Exactly. Tesla has been eating everyone's lunch for over a year without even having the car ready to sell! Imagine if GM had tried doing that with the Bolt! lol I guess they could have raked in a million or so in reservation money. Rick C. Tesla referral code -+- https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:44:04 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:> On 11/27/2018 05:16 PM, Winfield Hill wrote: > > bitrex wrote... > >> > >> Also the Prius is a slushbox and looks like a dog's dinner. > > > > The Prius, yes. Not the Prius Prime, a new design, > > check it out, very stylish, good and inside viewing. > > > > > > Still has the 10 second 0-60 time problem. This isn't an issue for a lot > of drivers. The Volt's is more like 7 seconds or slightly less, it's the > difference between a car that you have to drive and a car that's really > fun to drive. > > I tried the Prius Prime it was okay. I got the Volt on how enormously > fun it is to zip away from a red light with the dash power bargraph > meter hitting 100 kilowatts output power to the powertrain and a very > satisfying soft "Skreeeeeee!" rising tone coming from the main drive > motor sucking down the juice, like something from Star Trek. other than > totally silent just the tire noise and warm summer breeze coming in the > window. > > It's a different experience than any other hybrid or plug-in hybrid I've > driven before, very cool and unique and it would probably still be in > production if more people who were considering a Prius were able to have > it.Yeah, Tesla owners can get that same experience by keeping the car in "classic" mode (low acceleration) and playing a Star Trek track while hitting the pedal. 100 kW is what I use when merging with traffic. A couple of seconds or so and I'm from 40 to 60. 200 kW is what I use when I want to punch it. 400 kW is what I use for the pure thrill of driving a fast car. Then when I feel like letting my hair down, I turn on Ludicrous mode with 60% more torque. I've never looked at the kW consumed in Ludicrous mode. I'm too busy watching the road. Talk about fun driving!!! Rick C. Tesla referral code -++ https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 27, 20182018-11-27
On 11/27/2018 06:36 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:44:04 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote: >> On 11/27/2018 05:16 PM, Winfield Hill wrote: >>> bitrex wrote... >>>> >>>> Also the Prius is a slushbox and looks like a dog's dinner. >>> >>> The Prius, yes. Not the Prius Prime, a new design, >>> check it out, very stylish, good and inside viewing. >>> >>> >> >> Still has the 10 second 0-60 time problem. This isn't an issue for a lot >> of drivers. The Volt's is more like 7 seconds or slightly less, it's the >> difference between a car that you have to drive and a car that's really >> fun to drive. >> >> I tried the Prius Prime it was okay. I got the Volt on how enormously >> fun it is to zip away from a red light with the dash power bargraph >> meter hitting 100 kilowatts output power to the powertrain and a very >> satisfying soft "Skreeeeeee!" rising tone coming from the main drive >> motor sucking down the juice, like something from Star Trek. other than >> totally silent just the tire noise and warm summer breeze coming in the >> window. >> >> It's a different experience than any other hybrid or plug-in hybrid I've >> driven before, very cool and unique and it would probably still be in >> production if more people who were considering a Prius were able to have >> it. > > Yeah, Tesla owners can get that same experience by keeping the car in "classic" mode (low acceleration) and playing a Star Trek track while hitting the pedal. 100 kW is what I use when merging with traffic. A couple of seconds or so and I'm from 40 to 60. 200 kW is what I use when I want to punch it. 400 kW is what I use for the pure thrill of driving a fast car. Then when I feel like letting my hair down, I turn on Ludicrous mode with 60% more torque. I've never looked at the kW consumed in Ludicrous mode. I'm too busy watching the road. > > Talk about fun driving!!! > > Rick C. > > Tesla referral code -++ https://ts.la/richard11209 >Yeah I paid the same as a Prius Prime though, is the point
