GM Is Dropping the Volt

On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote:
>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>>  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto
>>>> with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales
>>>> were never very high?
>>>>
>>>
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>>    A bad model, IMO.
>>
>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018
>>
> 
> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius
> 
> Quote "Chevrolet Volt    $582 Average Annual Repair Cost"
> 
> ... and quote "Toyota Prius    $423 Average Annual Repair Cost"
> 
> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room for 
> improvement.
> 
> [...]
> 


Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this 
half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already wanted 
one, they sold around 250k of them I think.

There wasn't really much further to go with this design without breaking 
the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery 
pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do 
more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a crossover or 
something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it.

8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a high of 
around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it better 
but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever 
reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly 
sensible to me

On 11/27/2018 02:54 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>>  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto
>>>>> with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales
>>>>> were never very high?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>>    A bad model, IMO.
>>>
>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018
>>>
>>
>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius
>>
>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt    $582 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>
>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius    $423 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>
>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room for 
>> improvement.
>>
>> [...]
>>
> 
> 
> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this 
> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already wanted 
> one

Already had one, rather

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 2:41:39 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
> On 11/27/2018 01:08 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
> > I am not at all happy to say the Volt production will be ending as part of GM's cut backs.
> > 
> > GM is laying off thousands of workers, closing three plants, and ending production of the Chevy Volt
> >   https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/26/18112536/gm-layoffs-factory-closing-ending-production-chevy-volt
> > 
> >  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales were never very high?
> 
> Total sales will be around 250k units total over 8 years, not that bad 
> for a "niche" car I'd say.
> 
> They spent very little effort marketing it, there were factions in GM 
> that didn't want it undercutting market share of other vehicles. It was 
> a EV around-town car and a good long-distance car as well with the range 
> extender engine. You only have to buy one, they'd rather sell two!
> 
> > On the other hand, with all the advanced electronics on board, maybe this will help with the shortages of the larger surface mount passives.
> > 
> >    Rick C.
> > 
> >    Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> > 
> 
> Yeah, I was hoping there'd be a 3rd generation but looks like not to be. 
> But the writing was on the wall for it and rumors had been flying about 
> the possibility of it going away for a year or more.
> 
> When it came out in 2011 there was nothing like it, there still isn't 
> really its serial-hybrid design is somewhat unique to GM. Other plug-in 
> hybrids like the Honda Clarity always engage the gas engine above 45 
> mph, the Volt was a true EREV you could take it up to top speed on 
> electric power alone.
> 
> There are many other options in late 2018 (Bolt, Tesla) that are taking 
> market share back and sales have been undeniably sluggish.

Not sure why you even mentioned the Bolt.  In the article I read I believe the sales of the Bolt were even worse than the sales of the Volt over the last few months.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again, trying to sell a BEV without an adequate charging solution is like selling a gun without ammo.  It was quite humorous the way the salesman reacted when I asked about charging at the Chevy dealer.  You would have thought I had asked about the child molesting uncle.  

Even the Tesla Supercharging network is not as universally available as I would like.  I have had to charge at destination chargers and even at J-1772 chargers to get home.  But that is just in a pinch.  If I had to depend on the non-Tesla charging network for charging when not at home I would have never bought a BEV.  That is no small part of why I didn't buy a Bolt.  GM just doesn't care about charging. 

  Rick C. 

  Tesla referral code -- https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:08:55 -0800, gnuarm.deletethisbit wrote:

> I am not at all happy to say the Volt production will be ending as part
> of GM's cut backs.
> 
Supposedly, Volt sales have been weak.  They are also ending production 
of the Cruze, which I think is the base frame of the Volt, so if they 
kill the Cruze, they won't have the chassis for the Volt.

Jon

On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote:
> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>>  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto
>>>>> with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales
>>>>> were never very high?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>>    A bad model, IMO.
>>>
>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018
>>>
>>
>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius
>>
>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt    $582 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>
>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius    $423 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>
>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room for
>> improvement.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>
>
> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this
> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already wanted
> one, they sold around 250k of them I think.
>
> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without breaking
> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery
> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do
> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a crossover or
> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it.
>
> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a high of
> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it better
> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever
> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly
> sensible to me


All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate replacement in 
that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an 
obsolescence before that is the case.

Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many 
times before.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 11/27/2018 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote:
>> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
>>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto
>>>>>> with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales
>>>>>> were never very high?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>>>    A bad model, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius
>>>
>>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt    $582 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>>
>>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius    $423 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>>
>>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room for
>>> improvement.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>
>>
>> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this
>> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already wanted
>> one, they sold around 250k of them I think.
>>
>> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without breaking
>> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery
>> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do
>> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a crossover or
>> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it.
>>
>> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a high of
>> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it better
>> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever
>> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly
>> sensible to me
> 
> 
> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate replacement in 
> that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an 
> obsolescence before that is the case.

They do, the all-electric Bolt crossover SUV. It's expected that class 
of vehicle will be GM's way forward with electric vehicle technology.

> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many 
> times before.
> 

Circa 2010 the Volt was impressive on paper as both a pure hybrid car 
and an electric vehicle.

Since then ICE efficiency and pure-hybrid technology has improved 
somewhat, and all-electric technology has improved a lot.

The Volt's specs, even the second gen, aren't really impressive anymore 
as either an electric car based on range or charging time, or a 
gas-hybrid as compared to say the current gen Prius. And while some 
people who really value flexibility will still buy it I think it's hard 
to sell a car based on ambiguous "gender identity" alone.

On 11/27/2018 03:10 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:08:55 -0800, gnuarm.deletethisbit wrote:
> 
>> I am not at all happy to say the Volt production will be ending as part
>> of GM's cut backs.
>>
> Supposedly, Volt sales have been weak.  They are also ending production
> of the Cruze, which I think is the base frame of the Volt, so if they
> kill the Cruze, they won't have the chassis for the Volt.
> 
> Jon
> 

They use the GM Delta II platform for other stuff, and it uses a variant 
of the GM Small Gas Engine also used in the Cruze, and other stuff, as a 
range extender.

Other than that it's mostly unrelated to the Cruze, probably more so the 
Malibu. The interior and dash of the current Malibu and Volt are very 
similar

On Tuesday, 27 November 2018 13:08:59 UTC-5, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com  wrote:
> I am not at all happy to say the Volt production will be ending as part of GM's cut backs.  
> 
> GM is laying off thousands of workers, closing three plants, and ending production of the Chevy Volt
>  https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/26/18112536/gm-layoffs-factory-closing-ending-production-chevy-volt
> 
> From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales were never very high? 
> 
> On the other hand, with all the advanced electronics on board, maybe this will help with the shortages of the larger surface mount passives.  
> 

The Bolt is a pretty decent, if small, car; a friend bought one and I've driven in it many times. Pure electric, not hybrid, but quite impressive range, and a bargain here when the provincial government was kicking in $14K CAD subsidy and more for the charging station- recently cancelled by the Progressive Conservative party gov't. 

It's not really that much GM- the drive train and batteries are made by LG
in Korea (which endears it to me, but maybe not your typical GM buyer). 

Long run the pure electrics are probably going to take more and more of the
market, and cheap gas, if it continues, will squeeze the hybrids. Though there is still the range anxiety issue - so better as a 2nd or 3rd car. 

Speaking of the Bolt- my friend had to wait months for it.. it is almost
as if they don't really want to sell them. 

--Spehro Pefhany 

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 3:27:19 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote:
> > On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
> >> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote:
> >>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
> >>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
> >>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com:
> >>>>
> >>>>>  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid auto
> >>>>> with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why sales
> >>>>> were never very high?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>
> >>>>    A bad model, IMO.
> >>>
> >>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018
> >>>
> >>
> >> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius
> >>
> >> Quote "Chevrolet Volt    $582 Average Annual Repair Cost"
> >>
> >> ... and quote "Toyota Prius    $423 Average Annual Repair Cost"
> >>
> >> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room for
> >> improvement.
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >
> >
> > Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this
> > half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already wanted
> > one, they sold around 250k of them I think.
> >
> > There wasn't really much further to go with this design without breaking
> > the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery
> > pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do
> > more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a crossover or
> > something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it.
> >
> > 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a high of
> > around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it better
> > but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever
> > reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly
> > sensible to me
> 
> 
> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate replacement in 
> that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an 
> obsolescence before that is the case.
> 
> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many 
> times before.

I think the point is there is no lunch.  Barely even a light snack...  Otherwise they wouldn't be canceling it.  I am sure they didn't make the Volt all these years because of profits (which likely didn't exist anyway).  If GM had been at all serious about selling hybrids they would have promoted them more.  It really is that simple. 

GM needs something to show that they are "interested" in being in the race, but the emphasis has shifted to BEVs now and they only need to show they are making the Bolt.  Maybe in a decade when all the dust has settled GM will have serious contenders in the alternate fuel vehicle race. 

  Rick C. 

  Tesla referral code -+ https://ts.la/richard11209

On 2018-11-27 12:35, bitrex wrote:
> On 11/27/2018 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2018-11-27 11:54, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 11/27/2018 02:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2018-11-27 11:33, bitrex wrote:
>>>>> On 11/27/2018 02:11 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
>>>>>> news:645c497e-db00-43f4-a88c-d3e163dab3a6@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  From what has been posted here the Volt was an excellent hybrid
>>>>>>> auto
>>>>>>> with a lot going for it.  I'm sorry to see it go.  I wonder why
>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>> were never very high?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>    A bad model, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense it was the best-reviewed sedan GM was making as of 2018
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://repairpal.com/cars/compare/chevrolet-volt-vs-toyota-prius
>>>>
>>>> Quote "Chevrolet Volt    $582 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>>>
>>>> ... and quote "Toyota Prius    $423 Average Annual Repair Cost"
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the Volt is a bad design but there is obviously room for
>>>> improvement.
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Basically I think for the most part everyone who really wanted this
>>> half-and-half split-personality gas-electric type design already wanted
>>> one, they sold around 250k of them I think.
>>>
>>> There wasn't really much further to go with this design without breaking
>>> the budget or the form factor, you have to lug around both a battery
>>> pack and gas engine, that limits your options for improvement. To do
>>> more you'd have to use a larger platform, turn it into a crossover or
>>> something. Probably easier just to clean-sheet it.
>>>
>>> 8 years isn't a bad run but sales were slumping compared to a high of
>>> around 35,000 a few years back. I feel they could've pushed it better
>>> but cutting older models that will be hard to refresh, for whatever
>>> reason aren't selling and have already sold quite a bit seems fairly
>>> sensible to me
>>
>>
>> All true, provided that the manufacturer has an immediate replacement
>> in that very same vehicle category. It is not smart to announce an
>> obsolescence before that is the case.
>
> They do, the all-electric Bolt crossover SUV. It's expected that class
> of vehicle will be GM's way forward with electric vehicle technology.
>

All-electric is _not_ the same market segment at all. Those cars are not 
suitable for anyone who has to occasionally use them long distance or 
lives in a place with a very harsh winter.

A hybrid can only be replaced by another hybrid or the customers will 
flock to the competition.


>> Otherwise the competition will eat their lunch, as it has done many
>> times before.
>>
>
> Circa 2010 the Volt was impressive on paper as both a pure hybrid car
> and an electric vehicle.
>
> Since then ICE efficiency and pure-hybrid technology has improved
> somewhat, and all-electric technology has improved a lot.
>
> The Volt's specs, even the second gen, aren't really impressive anymore
> as either an electric car based on range or charging time, or a
> gas-hybrid as compared to say the current gen Prius. And while some
> people who really value flexibility will still buy it I think it's hard
> to sell a car based on ambiguous "gender identity" alone.


True, it has to sell on its merits. Aside from performance specs that is 
predominantly the price and even more so the reputation in terms of 
reliability. The latter is the reason why we bought two Japanese 
vehicles when we moved to the US. Well, the Toyota was actually 
manufacturered in the US so it has supported American jobs.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/