Two sides of a coin

<https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/>

<https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/>

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

><https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/>
>
><https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/>

I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I'd expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 1:12:49 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y 
> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote: 
> 
> ><https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/> 
> > 
> ><https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/> 
> 
> I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I'd expect that lots of people  gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.

But it does save you money. The electricity network delivers joules more cheaply than gas stations.

We are in transition at the moment, and there will be more charging stations and fewer gas station as time goes by.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 8/15/2023 5:31 PM, Don Y wrote:
> <https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/>
> 
> <https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/>
> 

Telling it like it is:

<snews://news.eternal-september.org:563/ph3ksv0j6f@drn.newsguy.com>

I wonder where "electricity generated from small gas engines"
fits on the scale of emissions?

[Note Hill has rooftop solar]

On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> <https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/>
>>
>> <https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/>
> 
> I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
> electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I'd expect that lots of people
> gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
> 
> 
> 

For me it's as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which 
is pretty convenient.

Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th 
century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough 
to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there's 
little reason no to include it

On 8/16/2023 12:03 AM, bitrex wrote:
> For me it's as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which is 
> pretty convenient.

Yet, it must not be for many people if they've, instead, opted to let the
engine charge their battery.  And, visit a gas station *more* often to
compensate for their laziness wrt plugging in their cars?  Are electric
car drivers just lazy?

As Winfield Hill said (to you):

      "Do you mostly charge your Volt from the AC power line,
      or from its gas engine?  I park my Prius on the street
      and so far there's no high-current AC outlet at work,
      so it's easier to just charge it with its gas engine."

His home sure looks suburban enough -- double-wide driveway,
two car garage (shitload of solar panels) -- yet he chooses to
park his silver prius out on the street?

Imagine what folks who live in apartment buildings, or *in* cities
must have to deal with!

[Ah, but the cities will pepper their streets with charging stations
instead of parking meters and apartment houses will install a hundred
in their parking lots -- all for free!  Thos of us without EVs will
get monthly stipend checks from the gummit as compensation...]

> Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th century. 
> Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough to recapture 
> waste energy and feed it back into the system, there's little reason no to 
> include it

On 8/16/2023 1:12 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/16/2023 12:03 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> For me it's as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which is 
>> pretty convenient.
> 
> Yet, it must not be for many people if they've, instead, opted to let the
> engine charge their battery.  And, visit a gas station *more* often to
> compensate for their laziness wrt plugging in their cars?  Are electric
> car drivers just lazy?
> 
> As Winfield Hill said (to you):
> 
>       "Do you mostly charge your Volt from the AC power line,
>       or from its gas engine?  I park my Prius on the street
>       and so far there's no high-current AC outlet at work,
>       so it's easier to just charge it with its gas engine."
> 
> His home sure looks suburban enough -- double-wide driveway,
> two car garage (shitload of solar panels) -- yet he chooses to
> park his silver prius out on the street?
> 
> Imagine what folks who live in apartment buildings, or *in* cities
> must have to deal with!
> 
> [Ah, but the cities will pepper their streets with charging stations
> instead of parking meters and apartment houses will install a hundred
> in their parking lots -- all for free!  Thos of us without EVs will
> get monthly stipend checks from the gummit as compensation...]

Shame that deep blue Massachusetts apparently hasn't decided to do so...

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 4:13:11 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/16/2023 12:03 AM, bitrex wrote: 
> > For me it's as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which is 
> > pretty convenient.
> Yet, it must not be for many people if they've, instead, opted to let the 
> engine charge their battery. And, visit a gas station *more* often to 
> compensate for their laziness wrt plugging in their cars? Are electric 
> car drivers just lazy? 
> 
> As Winfield Hill said (to you): 
> 
> "Do you mostly charge your Volt from the AC power line, 
> or from its gas engine? I park my Prius on the street 
> and so far there's no high-current AC outlet at work, 
> so it's easier to just charge it with its gas engine." 
> 
> His home sure looks suburban enough -- double-wide driveway, 
> two car garage (shitload of solar panels) -- yet he chooses to 
> park his silver prius out on the street? 
> 
> Imagine what folks who live in apartment buildings, or *in* cities 
> must have to deal with! 
> 
> [Ah, but the cities will pepper their streets with charging stations 
> instead of parking meters and apartment houses will install a hundred 
> in their parking lots -- all for free! Thos of us without EVs will 
> get monthly stipend checks from the gummit as compensation...]

There are times when you just get weird.  

You are kinda another Jan, with better English skills. 

-- 

  Rick C.

  - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
  - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> <https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/>
>>>
>>> <https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/>
>> 
>> I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
>> electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I'd expect that lots of people
>> gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>For me it's as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which 
>is pretty convenient.

That's not practical for a lot of people.

I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.

>
>Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th 
>century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough 
>to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there's 
>little reason no to include it

There is sadly no mechanical equivalent of a switching regulator.
Gears are fixed ratios and variable ratio systems are, so far, all
inefficient or plain bad. CVTs are often lemons.

My Audi has a tap-switching sort of tranny, 6 speeds, odd and even
gear sets, and a SPDT clutch, no torque converter. That's OK.

Transformer tap switching was interesting, back when things started
with a 60 Hz tranny.

onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 18.15.48 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: 
> 
> >On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote: 
> >> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y 
> >> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> <https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/> 
> >>> 
> >>> <https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/> 
> >> 
> >> I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using 
> >> electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I'd expect that lots of people 
> >> gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >For me it's as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which 
> >is pretty convenient.
> That's not practical for a lot of people. 
> 
> I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under 
> 10% of their miles from battery power.
> > 
> >Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th 
> >century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough 
> >to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there's 
> >little reason no to include it
> There is sadly no mechanical equivalent of a switching regulator. 
> Gears are fixed ratios and variable ratio systems are, so far, all 
> inefficient or plain bad. CVTs are often lemons. 

series hybrid,  no need for gears it is all done in the motor inverter

And with a battery as buffer it lets you use a an engine sized for your average 
power need that's much more efficient that sized for peak need. And run it at 
a constant, efficient, load and speed

might not be many miles coming from the battery, but not having to make 20hp with an engine designed for 200hp
adds efficiency