On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: >> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: >>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: >>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? >>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current >>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a >>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. >>> >>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? >> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow >> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. >> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! >> >> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdfDuh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are now the new norm) The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, instead?) [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT the outlet]
EV charging on GFCI
Started by ●August 6, 2023
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > >>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > >>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > >>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > >>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > >>> > >>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > >> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > >> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > >> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > >> > >> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > now the new norm) > > The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > instead?) > > [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > the outlet]Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.06.41 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > >>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > >>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > >>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > >>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > >>> > >>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > >> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > >> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > >> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > >> > >> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > now the new norm) > > The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!afaik RCDs are mandatory in EU, at least it is here. Though they are not like the US, they are at the fuse panel and ~30mA. So I'm sure the manufacturers have thought about it VFDs and other big switchers are notorious for tripping RCDs, they don't like DC
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! >>>> >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? >>> >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” >>> >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are >> now the new norm) >> >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! >> >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, >> instead?) >> >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT >> the outlet] > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, someone didn't understand their application!
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:23:31 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:> On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > >>>> > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > >>> > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > >>> > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > >> now the new norm) > >> > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > >> > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > >> instead?) > >> > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > >> the outlet] > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?Not needed with external GFCI. Needed for raw outlet. So, switching is an option.
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:> On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > >>>> > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > >>> > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > >>> > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > >> now the new norm) > >> > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > >> > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > >> instead?) > >> > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > >> the outlet] > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > someone didn't understand their application!his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > >>>> > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > >>> > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > >>> > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > >> now the new norm) > > >> > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > >> > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > >> instead?) > > >> > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > someone didn't understand their application! > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gumNo, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together?
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > >>> > > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > >>> > > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > > >> now the new norm) > > > >> > > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > > >> > > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > > >> instead?) > > > >> > > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > > someone didn't understand their application! > > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum > No, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together?isn't it the GFCI in the house that trips?
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:34:12 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > >>> > > > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > > > >> now the new norm) > > > > >> > > > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > > > >> > > > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > > > >> instead?) > > > > >> > > > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > > > someone didn't understand their application! > > > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum > > No, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together? > isn't it the GFCI in the house that trips?Yes, because the GFCI in the charger is leaking.
Reply by ●August 8, 20232023-08-08
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:25:23 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > >> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > >> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > >> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > >> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > > > Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf"the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play well together" That is some sort of official statement??? Can anyone explain why this would be? My understanding is the GFCI is just a toroid with both power leads wound through it so that is is sensitive to the difference in current only. This is sensed by an amplifier and used to control a relay. I can't see how cascading these would cause any problem. -- Rick C. + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
