On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 10:51:54 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive? > > Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips-in-gfci-protected-circuits You don't need to buy a specialized clamp meter. The most common cause for protective trips in equipment in otherwise good condition are the input transient suppressor MOVs. The MOVs degrade over time due to abuse outside their ratings, things like grid "swells." See the section on "End Of Life Scenarios". https://www.nemasurge.org/how-spd-s-work/
EV charging on GFCI
Started by ●August 6, 2023
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:35:10 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:25:23 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > >> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > >> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > >> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > > > > > Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > > > The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > "the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play well together" > That is some sort of official statement??? > > Can anyone explain why this would be? My understanding is the GFCI is just a toroid with both power leads wound through it so that is is sensitive to the difference in current only. This is sensed by an amplifier and used to control a relay. I can't see how cascading these would cause any problem.It used to be simple latching solenoid with two counter-wound current sensing coils for L and N. No power required to keep it latched.> > -- > > Rick C. > > + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:34:12 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > >>> > > > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > > > >> now the new norm) > > > > >> > > > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > > > >> > > > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > > > >> instead?) > > > > >> > > > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > > > someone didn't understand their application! > > > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum > > No, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together? > isn't it the GFCI in the house that trips?The NEC in U.S. requires that all outdoor receptacles as well as receptacles in "damp" locations be GFCI protected.
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:25:23 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > >> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > >> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > >> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > >> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > > > Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdfThat sounds a bit too folksy to have any credibility, especially when it originates with someone trying to sell you something.
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 10:51:54 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive? > > Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?I have always read this is always a problem with GFCI protected backup generator powering a house load. The problem is the house bonds GND and Neutral at the distribution panel. This causes the load return currents to current divide between the GND and N lines to the generator, causing the GFCI current sense on N to be unequal to the same on L, which of course trips the GFCI majorly. See if the charger didn't bond the input N and GND together for some reason. A static ohmmeter reading on the plug will show this.
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 9:19:45 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:34:12 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee: > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > > > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > > > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > > > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > > > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > > > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > > > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > > > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > > > > >> now the new norm) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > > > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > > > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > > > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > > > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > > > > >> instead?) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > > > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > > > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > > > > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > > > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > > > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > > > > someone didn't understand their application! > > > > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum > > > No, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together? > > isn't it the GFCI in the house that trips? > The NEC in U.S. requires that all outdoor receptacles as well as receptacles in "damp" locations be GFCI protected.The NEC is not actually a regulation. Each state decides on their own regulations, usually adopting the NEC, but on their own timetable. It's not unusual for a state to wait 20 years to adopt any particular section of NEC. They also modify the language when they choose. -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:34:55 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 9:19:45 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:34:12 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee: > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > > > > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > > > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > > > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > > > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > > > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > > > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > > > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > > > > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > > > > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > > > > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > > > > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > > > > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > > > > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > > > > > >> now the new norm) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > > > > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > > > > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > > > > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > > > > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > > > > > >> instead?) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > > > > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > > > > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > > > > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > > > > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > > > > > someone didn't understand their application! > > > > > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum > > > > No, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together? > > > isn't it the GFCI in the house that trips? > > The NEC in U.S. requires that all outdoor receptacles as well as receptacles in "damp" locations be GFCI protected. > The NEC is not actually a regulation. Each state decides on their own regulations, usually adopting the NEC, but on their own timetable. It's not unusual for a state to wait 20 years to adopt any particular section of NEC. They also modify the language when they choose.States don't create their own electric codes. They do create their own building codes, and the localities put together their own building codes. All the codes are a collection of callouts to national standards codes by year of issue, including the NEC. They can do anything they want except cost the builders more money.> > -- > > Rick C. > > --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:55:57 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:34:55 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote: > > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 9:19:45 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:34:12 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee: > > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > > > tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y: > > > > > > > On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > > >>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > > > > > > > >>>> On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > > > > > > > >>>>>> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > > > > >>>>>> Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current > > > > > > > >>>>>> leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a > > > > > > > >>>>>> direct physical leakage to surrounding ground. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire? > > > > > > > >>>> Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow > > > > > > > >>>> electricians to charge more for each fixture they install. > > > > > > > >>>> Likewise, those pesky *fuses*! > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*? > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost? > > > > > > > >>> A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of > > > > > > > >>> both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in, > > > > > > > >>> the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already > > > > > > > >>> have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play > > > > > > > >>> well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.” > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf > > > > > > > >> Duh. You aren't supposed to cascade GFCI's. (And, actually, AFCI's are > > > > > > > >> now the new norm) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven't realized that > > > > > > > >> ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and > > > > > > > >> designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup! > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when > > > > > > > >> you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just > > > > > > > >> washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet, > > > > > > > >> instead?) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> [If you're like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT > > > > > > > >> the outlet] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI. > > > > > > > So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they > > > > > > > designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL > > > > > > > be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly, > > > > > > > someone didn't understand their application! > > > > > > his "charger" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum > > > > > No, it's a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together? > > > > isn't it the GFCI in the house that trips? > > > The NEC in U.S. requires that all outdoor receptacles as well as receptacles in "damp" locations be GFCI protected. > > The NEC is not actually a regulation. Each state decides on their own regulations, usually adopting the NEC, but on their own timetable. It's not unusual for a state to wait 20 years to adopt any particular section of NEC. They also modify the language when they choose. > States don't create their own electric codes. They do create their own building codes, and the localities put together their own building codes. All the codes are a collection of callouts to national standards codes by year of issue, including the NEC. They can do anything they want except cost the builders more money.If you say so. The point is, having an NEC section, does not make it a regulation in any state. And states do have their own regulations which can be the same as NEC or can be different. There is no federal mandate to adopt anything in the NEC. NEC is a private organization, not a government body. https://na.bhs1.com/blog/post/state-by-state-guide-to-nec-adoption https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-maps Notice some states don't mandate anything. The leave it to the local jurisdictions. -- Rick C. -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:01:05 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 10:51:54 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote: > > I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive? > > > > Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet? > I have always read this is always a problem with GFCI protected backup generator powering a house load. The problem is the house bonds GND and Neutral at the distribution panel. This causes the load return currents to current divide between the GND and N lines to the generator, causing the GFCI current sense on N to be unequal to the same on L, which of course trips the GFCI majorly. See if the charger didn't bond the input N and GND together for some reason. A static ohmmeter reading on the plug will show this.I am sure N is not tied to PE. The EVSE/charger works for 220V also, so both wires are L and no N. The original connector is NEMA-20P, with adapter to regular 110V.
Reply by ●August 10, 20232023-08-10
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 11:55:35 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:01:05 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 10:51:54 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote: > > > I am using the portable charger on friend's house, but it's tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires? > > > > > > The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive? > > > > > > Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet? > > I have always read this is always a problem with GFCI protected backup generator powering a house load. The problem is the house bonds GND and Neutral at the distribution panel. This causes the load return currents to current divide between the GND and N lines to the generator, causing the GFCI current sense on N to be unequal to the same on L, which of course trips the GFCI majorly. See if the charger didn't bond the input N and GND together for some reason. A static ohmmeter reading on the plug will show this. > I am sure N is not tied to PE. The EVSE/charger works for 220V also, so both wires are L and no N. The original connector is NEMA-20P, with adapter to regular 110V.5-20P is a 125V plug, so that means L and N. What connector do you use to plug into 220?
