On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:13:15 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:08:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:00:56 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > > > > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > > > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > > > > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > > > > > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? > > > > You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards. > > > > > Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense. > > > > That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards. > > > > > > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > > > > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > > > > > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! > > > > I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me. > > > According to you anyone who doesn't give it away is a money gouger. > > > > > > Charging is going to be just like gasoline in the end. You will pay the cost of providing electrons and they will make their money on the other stuff you buy. > > > > > > There's no need to mandate anything. The free market will let the popular chargers make money and the others will be bought up. Vote with your wallet. Don't ask the government to cast your vote for you. You may not like the result. > > Yes, the anonymous free CalTran chargers are winning the race, but there are still locations that are out of reach. The mandate is asking for another option, but nobody is stopping you from using their own private card/reader. > What are you talking about "another option"? The mandate is a mandate. If they use a credit card reader they won't use anything else!That's not true. The stations with credit cards readers always have their own RFID readers as well.> CalTran is only "winning" anything because it is outside the process of natural selection by the users voting. It is SUBSIDIZED and exists regardless of use or "profitability". You only like it because you like for others to pay for your driving. Good thing you live in California. > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards.Well, why are we EV drivers forced to be exposed while charging? Perhaps they should be under-covered as well.
Motion in support or reject EV charging chip reader?
Started by ●October 10, 2021
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:23:07 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:06:44 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > > > > > > Credit cards seem to work everywhere. > > Unfortunately, not true for many charging stations. > To promote EVs what they really need to do is to support and educate regarding charging at home and at work. Maybe promote work located level 2 charging. Level 2 is how the vast majority of EV charging will be done. Most people who don't own EVs don't understand that. Larkin is a perfect example of that. The average daily charge needed by EVs is just 8 kWh. Even a level 1, 120VAC outlet can do that overnight.Yes.> Level 3 charging is pushed by the EV companies to assuage fears of range anxiety on trips. That's important, but such trips for most EVs (ones that have more than 50 mile range) only need level 3 charging a very few times a year, but need regular level 2 or 1 charging. So that is the real charging issue for adoption by the widest range of users. We need to find ways of getting level 2 charging installed for apartments and town houses. California mandated solar panels on residential homes. So it would seem a similar matter to mandate EV charging facilities which cost much, much less. Level 2 charging at work would facilitate the full use of the daily solar generation peak that presently is shipped out of state in the worst case. Install a few level 2 chargers at work sites and solve two problems at once very inexpensively.Maybe. Chargings on highways and reststops are still critical and necessary.> Giving out free electrons to people like Ed Lee is not the way to promote EVs.This is not even talking about being free. We are talking about option to pay anonymously without being part of their big data. Big data are valuable to the free marketers, and given their own choice, will always be preferred. Free electrons to Ed Lee is only temporary. All CalTran chargers have Credit Card readers, and might be billable at some time in the future.
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 9:27:02 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:13:15 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:08:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:00:56 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > > > > > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > > > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > > > > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > > > > > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > > > > > > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? > > > > > You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards. > > > > > > Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense. > > > > > That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards. > > > > > > > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > > > > > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > > > > > > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! > > > > > I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me. > > > > According to you anyone who doesn't give it away is a money gouger. > > > > > > > > Charging is going to be just like gasoline in the end. You will pay the cost of providing electrons and they will make their money on the other stuff you buy. > > > > > > > > There's no need to mandate anything. The free market will let the popular chargers make money and the others will be bought up. Vote with your wallet. Don't ask the government to cast your vote for you. You may not like the result. > > > Yes, the anonymous free CalTran chargers are winning the race, but there are still locations that are out of reach. The mandate is asking for another option, but nobody is stopping you from using their own private card/reader. > > What are you talking about "another option"? The mandate is a mandate. If they use a credit card reader they won't use anything else! > That's not true. The stations with credit cards readers always have their own RFID readers as well.Yes, now. Impose a mandate and the other cards will go away.> > CalTran is only "winning" anything because it is outside the process of natural selection by the users voting. It is SUBSIDIZED and exists regardless of use or "profitability". You only like it because you like for others to pay for your driving. Good thing you live in California. > > > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > Well, why are we EV drivers forced to be exposed while charging? Perhaps they should be under-covered as well.How are you exposed??? I either sit in my car or go get something to eat, mostly the latter. Both are the same as buying gas. I'm heading back to VA from BWI Tuesday and don't have enough charge to reach my favorite Mojarra restaurant, so I'll need to pause for a few minutes in DC, then stop in Fredericksburg to get my grub. The one in DC is a 250 kW charger, so it won't give me enough time to walk to a restaurant much less eat. If it's raining I will get wet. The restaurant is some 100-200 yards from the pumps. -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 9:34:33 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:23:07 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:06:44 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > > > > > > > > Credit cards seem to work everywhere. > > > Unfortunately, not true for many charging stations. > > To promote EVs what they really need to do is to support and educate regarding charging at home and at work. Maybe promote work located level 2 charging. Level 2 is how the vast majority of EV charging will be done. Most people who don't own EVs don't understand that. Larkin is a perfect example of that. The average daily charge needed by EVs is just 8 kWh. Even a level 1, 120VAC outlet can do that overnight. > Yes. > > Level 3 charging is pushed by the EV companies to assuage fears of range anxiety on trips. That's important, but such trips for most EVs (ones that have more than 50 mile range) only need level 3 charging a very few times a year, but need regular level 2 or 1 charging. So that is the real charging issue for adoption by the widest range of users. We need to find ways of getting level 2 charging installed for apartments and town houses. California mandated solar panels on residential homes. So it would seem a similar matter to mandate EV charging facilities which cost much, much less. Level 2 charging at work would facilitate the full use of the daily solar generation peak that presently is shipped out of state in the worst case. Install a few level 2 chargers at work sites and solve two problems at once very inexpensively. > Maybe. Chargings on highways and reststops are still critical and necessary.And not in need of handouts. The Volkswagen scandal provided 2 billion dollars for charging and that is more than needed for now. GM is working on getting into the fray as are the other automakers. It's turning into a feeding frenzy and they will end up working out the details just as they are doing with the connectors. As individuals we have virtually no voice in the matter other than to vote with our wallets. I remember in 2018 asking a Chevy dealer about charging and I could hear a pin drop... nothing to say. Now that Tesla has more charging stalls in the US than anyone and are selling close to a million units this year, GM is getting the message. Caltran is just pissing in the wind.> > Giving out free electrons to people like Ed Lee is not the way to promote EVs. > This is not even talking about being free. We are talking about option to pay anonymously without being part of their big data. Big data are valuable to the free marketers, and given their own choice, will always be preferred. > > Free electrons to Ed Lee is only temporary. All CalTran chargers have Credit Card readers, and might be billable at some time in the future.Funny that some states don't allow electrons to be sold this way. You have to pay by the minute. That is the sort of thing that needs to be addressed. But then no one has the charging solution that Tesla does. Not only the best charging network, but integrated into the mapping system in the car along with range prediction and recommendations on stops to provide the shortest time charging. That's hard to beat. Does anyone else do that? -- Rick C. -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:13:30 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 9:27:02 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:13:15 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:08:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:00:56 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > > > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > > > > > > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > > > > > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > > > > > > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > > > > > > > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? > > > > > > You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards. > > > > > > > Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense. > > > > > > That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards. > > > > > > > > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > > > > > > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > > > > > > > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! > > > > > > I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me. > > > > > According to you anyone who doesn't give it away is a money gouger. > > > > > > > > > > Charging is going to be just like gasoline in the end. You will pay the cost of providing electrons and they will make their money on the other stuff you buy. > > > > > > > > > > There's no need to mandate anything. The free market will let the popular chargers make money and the others will be bought up. Vote with your wallet. Don't ask the government to cast your vote for you. You may not like the result. > > > > Yes, the anonymous free CalTran chargers are winning the race, but there are still locations that are out of reach. The mandate is asking for another option, but nobody is stopping you from using their own private card/reader. > > > What are you talking about "another option"? The mandate is a mandate. If they use a credit card reader they won't use anything else! > > That's not true. The stations with credit cards readers always have their own RFID readers as well.> Yes, now. Impose a mandate and the other cards will go away.If having two readers is really too expensive, charging companies can always issue cards with chips. Or credit/debit cards going RFID. But judging from my experiences with charging stations RFID, i would rather have chip card.
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
> > Free electrons to Ed Lee is only temporary. All CalTran chargers have Credit Card readers, and might be billable at some time in the future. > Funny that some states don't allow electrons to be sold this way. You have to pay by the minute. That is the sort of thing that needs to be addressed. But then no one has the charging solution that Tesla does. Not only the best charging network, but integrated into the mapping system in the car along with range prediction and recommendations on stops to provide the shortest time charging. That's hard to beat. Does anyone else do that?No, because we would be missing out all the free stations. But i am still seeing many Teslas in free stations, they must be charging Out-Of-Band.
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:13:15 PM UTC-5, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:08:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:00:56 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > > > > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > > > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > > > > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > > > > > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? > > > > You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards. > > > > > Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense. > > > > That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards. > > > > > > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > > > > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > > > > > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! > > > > I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me. > > > According to you anyone who doesn't give it away is a money gouger. > > > > > > Charging is going to be just like gasoline in the end. You will pay the cost of providing electrons and they will make their money on the other stuff you buy. > > > > > > There's no need to mandate anything. The free market will let the popular chargers make money and the others will be bought up. Vote with your wallet. Don't ask the government to cast your vote for you. You may not like the result. > > Yes, the anonymous free CalTran chargers are winning the race, but there are still locations that are out of reach. The mandate is asking for another option, but nobody is stopping you from using their own private card/reader. > What are you talking about "another option"? The mandate is a mandate. If they use a credit card reader they won't use anything else! CalTran is only "winning" anything because it is outside the process of natural selection by the users voting. It is SUBSIDIZED and exists regardless of use or "profitability". You only like it because you like for others to pay for your driving. Good thing you live in California. > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID y thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > > -- > > Rick C. > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska. <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pump+and+pantry+%235&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Ftheindependent.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F39%2F53940063-7388-5d2b-8f1b-674895b06c31%2F4f9b1c46d5dd3.image.jpg> OR. <tinyurl.com/keb4mc9p > The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes. <https://vitalbypoet.com/stories/caseys-rapidly-expands-its-e15-offerings>
Reply by ●October 10, 20212021-10-10
> > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID y thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > > > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska. > <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pump+and+pantry+%235&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Ftheindependent.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F39%2F53940063-7388-5d2b-8f1b-674895b06c31%2F4f9b1c46d5dd3.image.jpg> > OR. <tinyurl.com/keb4mc9p > > The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. > These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes. > <https://vitalbypoet.com/stories/caseys-rapidly-expands-its-e15-offerings>Doesn't take much to protect chip readers. Here is a totally exposed parking meter with reader: https://www.google.com/search?q=san+fran+parking+meter+card+reader&hl=en&sxsrf=AOaemvKM3qs3lFUiQPV45FOIq080UBcDdQ:1633920365759&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiru_fXq8HzAhVnnuAKHRmIDykQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1360&bih=615&dpr=1#imgrc=R34kxL6EyVsVZM
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On 10/10/2021 2:27 PM, Ed Lee wrote:> 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when > drivers don't want charging company to track their routes.Never use a credit card as it has to be in *someone's* name (the person to whom the credit is being EXTENDED). Instead, use a prepaid debit card (which can be purchased as commodities). But, the fee for doing so can be high. And carry a burner phone, more than one as they can sort out who "owns" the burner phone by examining who is called! And, use cell tower locations to "track your route". [I did this to "prove" my BinL was "stepping out" on my sister as his cell phone record (bill) would indicate the municipality associated with the tower that *took* his call so I could watch his travels -- after the fact]
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On 10/10/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:>>> I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. >> Then you need a GPS spoofer. > > My car get GPS data, but doesn't send it to some database.Do you *know* that? My car gets GPS data, too. And, also provides real-time traffic updates. I wonder what sorts of devices they have patrolling the roads, gathering all that data?? Some sort of device that is mobile... likely has wheels on it and drives around *in* that traffic. Something to which they have access, by design...
