On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 10:38:54 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:13:15 PM UTC-5, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:08:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:00:56 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > > > > > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > > > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > > > > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > > > > > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > > > > > > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? > > > > > You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards. > > > > > > Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense. > > > > > That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards. > > > > > > > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > > > > > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > > > > > > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! > > > > > I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me. > > > > According to you anyone who doesn't give it away is a money gouger. > > > > > > > > Charging is going to be just like gasoline in the end. You will pay the cost of providing electrons and they will make their money on the other stuff you buy. > > > > > > > > There's no need to mandate anything. The free market will let the popular chargers make money and the others will be bought up. Vote with your wallet. Don't ask the government to cast your vote for you. You may not like the result. > > > Yes, the anonymous free CalTran chargers are winning the race, but there are still locations that are out of reach. The mandate is asking for another option, but nobody is stopping you from using their own private card/reader. > > What are you talking about "another option"? The mandate is a mandate. If they use a credit card reader they won't use anything else! CalTran is only "winning" anything because it is outside the process of natural selection by the users voting. It is SUBSIDIZED and exists regardless of use or "profitability". You only like it because you like for others to pay for your driving. Good thing you live in California. > > > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID y thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > > > > -- > > > > Rick C. > > > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska. > <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pump+and+pantry+%235&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Ftheindependent.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F39%2F53940063-7388-5d2b-8f1b-674895b06c31%2F4f9b1c46d5dd3.image.jpg> > OR. <tinyurl.com/keb4mc9p > > The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. > These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes. > <https://vitalbypoet.com/stories/caseys-rapidly-expands-its-e15-offerings>Actually the shelters over the pumps do a LOT of good. I'm sure in really bad weather the pumps get wet, but try designing electronics to sit outside in direct rain, snow, etc 24/7. It's hard to make it last. It can be done, but the costs go up significantly. That's one of the big reasons why military gear is so expensive. It's intended to be used in the worst conditions and keep working. -- Rick C. -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Motion in support or reject EV charging chip reader?
Started by ●October 10, 2021
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:37:32 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:> On 10/10/2021 2:27 PM, Ed Lee wrote: > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when > > drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > Never use a credit card as it has to be in *someone's* name (the person to > whom the credit is being EXTENDED). Instead, use a prepaid debit card > (which can be purchased as commodities). But, the fee for doing so can be > high.Yes, i do mean debit cards. I still have some balance on the stimulus cards for that purpose. I think only the IRS have the info about me linking to the cards.
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:42:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 10:38:54 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:13:15 PM UTC-5, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 7:08:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 4:00:56 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > > > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > > > > > > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > > > > > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > > > > > > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > > > > > > > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? > > > > > > You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards. > > > > > > > Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense. > > > > > > That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards. > > > > > > > > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > > > > > > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > > > > > > > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! > > > > > > I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me. > > > > > According to you anyone who doesn't give it away is a money gouger. > > > > > > > > > > Charging is going to be just like gasoline in the end. You will pay the cost of providing electrons and they will make their money on the other stuff you buy. > > > > > > > > > > There's no need to mandate anything. The free market will let the popular chargers make money and the others will be bought up. Vote with your wallet. Don't ask the government to cast your vote for you. You may not like the result. > > > > Yes, the anonymous free CalTran chargers are winning the race, but there are still locations that are out of reach. The mandate is asking for another option, but nobody is stopping you from using their own private card/reader. > > > What are you talking about "another option"? The mandate is a mandate. If they use a credit card reader they won't use anything else! CalTran is only "winning" anything because it is outside the process of natural selection by the users voting. It is SUBSIDIZED and exists regardless of use or "profitability". You only like it because you like for others to pay for your driving. Good thing you live in California. > > > > > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID y thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska. > > <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pump+and+pantry+%235&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Ftheindependent.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F39%2F53940063-7388-5d2b-8f1b-674895b06c31%2F4f9b1c46d5dd3.image.jpg> > > OR. <tinyurl.com/keb4mc9p > > > The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. > > These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes. > > <https://vitalbypoet.com/stories/caseys-rapidly-expands-its-e15-offerings> > Actually the shelters over the pumps do a LOT of good. I'm sure in really bad weather the pumps get wet, but try designing electronics to sit outside in direct rain, snow, etc 24/7. It's hard to make it last. It can be done, but the costs go up significantly. That's one of the big reasons why military gear is so expensive. It's intended to be used in the worst conditions and keep working.The completely sealed RFID readers are not very much better. I have had problems with all the cards i carry, usually at DCFC stations. Perhaps the large transformer next to the station is causing problem. Credit cards have decided to stay with chips, rather than RFID. They might know better with reliability, as well as security with RF.
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On 10/10/2021 8:45 PM, Ed Lee wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:37:32 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: >> On 10/10/2021 2:27 PM, Ed Lee wrote: >>> 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when >>> drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. >> Never use a credit card as it has to be in *someone's* name (the person >> to whom the credit is being EXTENDED). Instead, use a prepaid debit card >> (which can be purchased as commodities). But, the fee for doing so can be >> high. > > Yes, i do mean debit cards. I still have some balance on the stimulus cards > for that purpose. I think only the IRS have the info about me linking to > the cards.Are you *sure* that data will stay private? The amount of stimulus you received *may* contain sensitive information (if you are an outlier). But, the fact that you received it likely isn't. And, every vendor where you've used that card provides a hint as to your identity. Plan on selling the vehicle when the card runs out? What if they start collecting the equivalent of an "excise tax" for road usage AT the pump. And also read your odometer annually to determine your "road usage" -- allowing you to deduct those taxes paid at non-home-charging locations (so they don't have to require your home charger to collect those taxes) from your measured usage.
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 10:49:07 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID y thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > > > > > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska. > > <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pump+and+pantry+%235&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Ftheindependent.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F39%2F53940063-7388-5d2b-8f1b-674895b06c31%2F4f9b1c46d5dd3.image.jpg> > > OR. <tinyurl.com/keb4mc9p > > > The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. > > These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes. > > <https://vitalbypoet.com/stories/caseys-rapidly-expands-its-e15-offerings> > Doesn't take much to protect chip readers. Here is a totally exposed parking meter with reader: > > https://www.google.com/search?q=san+fran+parking+meter+card+reader&hl=en&sxsrf=AOaemvKM3qs3lFUiQPV45FOIq080UBcDdQ:1633920365759&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiru_fXq8HzAhVnnuAKHRmIDykQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1360&bih=615&dpr=1#imgrc=R34kxL6EyVsVZMYou call that "not too much"??? Those cases are die cast! That is the most expensive case you can design other than possibly hogging out a solid piece of metal. Gas pumps and every EV charger I've seen is either a sheet metal or plastic cabinet. The DC metro was going to use bronze castings for the turnstiles in the stations in spite of the HUGE cost until someone pointed out it would take a small crane to remove them for maintenance. I suppose they could bolt a parking meter onto the side of a charger and let you pay for time of charging rather than the kWh used. Then they don't need to do any mods! -- Rick C. +-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 9:01:48 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:> On 10/10/2021 8:45 PM, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:37:32 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: > >> On 10/10/2021 2:27 PM, Ed Lee wrote: > >>> 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when > >>> drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > >> Never use a credit card as it has to be in *someone's* name (the person > >> to whom the credit is being EXTENDED). Instead, use a prepaid debit card > >> (which can be purchased as commodities). But, the fee for doing so can be > >> high. > > > > Yes, i do mean debit cards. I still have some balance on the stimulus cards > > for that purpose. I think only the IRS have the info about me linking to > > the cards. > Are you *sure* that data will stay private? The amount of stimulus you > received *may* contain sensitive information (if you are an outlier). > But, the fact that you received it likely isn't.IRS is less likely to sell the data for profit. Same can't be said about EvGo. Their customer data might be the only thing valuable in their business.> And, every vendor where you've used that card provides a hint as to your identity.Not as much as the issuer.> Plan on selling the vehicle when the card runs out?Buy another debit card.> What if they start collecting the equivalent of an "excise tax" > for road usage AT the pump. And also read your odometer annually > to determine your "road usage" -- allowing you to deduct those > taxes paid at non-home-charging locations (so they don't have > to require your home charger to collect those taxes) from your > measured usage.Actually, that can be done via CAN on ChaDeMod, if they really want it.
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 9:05:14 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 10:49:07 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > I'm trying to think if there are credit card readers that are completely exposed. The gas pumps and parking garages card readers are all under cover. I've not seen any car chargers that are under cover. I guess they can do the RFID y thing outdoors easily enough, but not all credit cards are RFID, especially the anonymous debit cards. > > > > > > > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska. > > > <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pump+and+pantry+%235&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Ftheindependent.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2F39%2F53940063-7388-5d2b-8f1b-674895b06c31%2F4f9b1c46d5dd3.image.jpg> > > > OR. <tinyurl.com/keb4mc9p > > > > The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. > > > These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes. > > > <https://vitalbypoet.com/stories/caseys-rapidly-expands-its-e15-offerings> > > Doesn't take much to protect chip readers. Here is a totally exposed parking meter with reader: > > > > https://www.google.com/search?q=san+fran+parking+meter+card+reader&hl=en&sxsrf=AOaemvKM3qs3lFUiQPV45FOIq080UBcDdQ:1633920365759&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiru_fXq8HzAhVnnuAKHRmIDykQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1360&bih=615&dpr=1#imgrc=R34kxL6EyVsVZM > You call that "not too much"??? Those cases are die cast! That is the most expensive case you can design other than possibly hogging out a solid piece of metal. Gas pumps and every EV charger I've seen is either a sheet metal or plastic cabinet. > > The DC metro was going to use bronze castings for the turnstiles in the stations in spite of the HUGE cost until someone pointed out it would take a small crane to remove them for maintenance. I suppose they could bolt a parking meter onto the side of a charger and let you pay for time of charging rather than the kWh used. Then they don't need to do any mods!Actually, for the cost of parking ($3/hr) in the city, they should provide L2 charging at every meter.
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On 10/10/2021 9:11 PM, Ed Lee wrote:> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 9:01:48 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: >> On 10/10/2021 8:45 PM, Ed Lee wrote: >>> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 8:37:32 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: >>>> On 10/10/2021 2:27 PM, Ed Lee wrote: >>>>> 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, >>>>> when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. >>>> Never use a credit card as it has to be in *someone's* name (the >>>> person to whom the credit is being EXTENDED). Instead, use a prepaid >>>> debit card (which can be purchased as commodities). But, the fee for >>>> doing so can be high. >>> >>> Yes, i do mean debit cards. I still have some balance on the stimulus >>> cards for that purpose. I think only the IRS have the info about me >>> linking to the cards. >> Are you *sure* that data will stay private? The amount of stimulus you >> received *may* contain sensitive information (if you are an outlier). But, >> the fact that you received it likely isn't. > > IRS is less likely to sell the data for profit. Same can't be said about > EvGo. Their customer data might be the only thing valuable in their > business.They may GIVE it away for some specific research in EV usage patterns (conducted as a prelude to instituting a new "gas tax" or "EV tax"). "Do EV users make greater use of the roadways than regular ICE vehicles?">> And, every vendor where you've used that card provides a hint as to your >> identity. > > Not as much as the issuer.Do you think Microsoft (IE, Edge, etc.) is the entity that is distributing data from your browsing habits? Or, do you think the WEB SITES are kabitzing about your visits?>> Plan on selling the vehicle when the card runs out? > > Buy another debit card.Will the issuing entity be more or less likely than the IRS to "sell (or otherwise profit) from that data"?>> What if they start collecting the equivalent of an "excise tax" for road >> usage AT the pump. And also read your odometer annually to determine your >> "road usage" -- allowing you to deduct those taxes paid at >> non-home-charging locations (so they don't have to require your home >> charger to collect those taxes) from your measured usage. > > Actually, that can be done via CAN on ChaDeMod, if they really want it.Oh, you can *bet* they'll want it! Esp as the share of EVs increases! One thing pols are good at is ensuring their revenue streams remain intact -- esp if THEY are the ones who write the laws! And, if they are like most, they will find a way of rationalizing taking some of those "savings" that may have influenced your EV purchase decision for their own benefit!
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On 10/10/2021 9:25 PM, Don Y wrote:> Oh, you can *bet* they'll want it! Esp as the share of EVs increases! > One thing pols are good at is ensuring their revenue streams remain > intact -- esp if THEY are the ones who write the laws! > > And, if they are like most, they will find a way of rationalizing taking > some of those "savings" that may have influenced your EV purchase decision > for their own benefit!Imagine getting an annual bill for your "gas tax alternative". States collect up to ~60c/mile for gas tax. If you drove 12000 miles annually, that would be a $7200 bill ("payable in four installments"). I wonder how many folks would be prepared for such an outlay?
Reply by ●October 11, 20212021-10-11
On 10/10/2021 9:28 PM, Don Y wrote:> On 10/10/2021 9:25 PM, Don Y wrote: >> Oh, you can *bet* they'll want it! Esp as the share of EVs increases! >> One thing pols are good at is ensuring their revenue streams remain >> intact -- esp if THEY are the ones who write the laws! >> >> And, if they are like most, they will find a way of rationalizing taking >> some of those "savings" that may have influenced your EV purchase decision >> for their own benefit! > > Imagine getting an annual bill for your "gas tax alternative". > States collect up to ~60c/mile for gas tax. If you drove > 12000 miles annually, that would be a $7200 bill ("payable in > four installments"). > > I wonder how many folks would be prepared for such an outlay?Sorry, that should be 60c/Gal. And, most ICEs probably get ~30MPG so 3c/mile effective rate. $360 per year. [There are already proposals in the works for 8c/mile in some places!]
