Forums

Motion in support or reject EV charging chip reader?

Started by Ed Lee October 10, 2021
Again:

"Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB’s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs"

http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html

For:

1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes.

2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID.  $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable.
On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 14:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>Again: > >"Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&#2013266066;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > >http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > >For: > >1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > >2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable.
Why should ev chargers be any different from gas stations or Burger King? -- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 14:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee > <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Against: > > > >"Cost - $700 million in costs could Bslow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > >http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > >For: > > > >1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > >2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable.
> Why should ev chargers be any different from gas stations or Burger King?
Ev stations are very often unmanned. So far, not many BK are totally automated.
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> Again: > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > For: > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes.
That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh!
> 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable.
Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. I read that Tesla is upping the minimum price of the model 3. They have never made much money on the low end vehicles and may actually lose something on each one making it up in the emissions credits they sell. At some point they need to fix that. Tesla builds in a lot of features that are enabled by software. No matter what they say, that costs something on every car. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:00:45 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 14:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee > > <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >Against: > > > > > >"Cost - $700 million in costs could Bslow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > >http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > >For: > > > > > >1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > > > >2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > Why should ev chargers be any different from gas stations or Burger King? > Ev stations are very often unmanned. So far, not many BK are totally automated.
Gas stations are often unmanned at night. I think some states require having a person to deal with safety issues, but not everywhere. The real reason they have people there is to sell you the stuff they make money on... gas is just the way to lure you in. At some point EV charging will be the same only more so. Instead of having ten minutes to get your attention they will have at least 20 minutes to 45. Yeah, people get hungry after driving for four hours. They get bored too. What sorts of entertainments do you think will pop up at EV charging sites? Right now they are trying to make money on the juice for the car... that won't last. -- Rick C. + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > Against: > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > For: > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh!
Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card.
> > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever.
My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers.
> The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked.
I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second.
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > Against: > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > For: > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers.
Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex? Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense.
> > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second.
Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU! -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
s&oslash;ndag den 10. oktober 2021 kl. 23.28.01 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> Again: > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" >
whats' the denominator, does it 50% to the cost or 0.1%?
On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > Against: > > > > > > > > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > > > > > > http://www.evassociation.org/carb.html > > > > > > > > For: > > > > > > > > 1. Allow simple and anonymous payment with pre-paid credit card, when drivers don't want charging company to track their routes. > > > That already exists. It's called a prepaid debit card. Duh! > > Not when the charging station only allows their only RFID cards, which sometimes don't work. I have had problems with CP, EC and EG before, but they seldom reject credit card. > > > > 2. Contactless RFID is not so much more reliable than chip ID. $271/yr additional maintenance cost is questionable. > > > Who cares? It's a buck a day. Whatever. > > My argument is that it would probably cost the same as maintaining their RFID readers. > Your argument to making EV charging simpler and more universal is for every charging company to have their own RFID card? Just have credit card readers which seem to commonly RFID these days and be done with it! Why make it complex?
You are not understanding the issue. I am in support of the Motion by CARB to mandate credit card reader starting 2022. Without the mandate, most free marketers simply have their own RFID readers for their own cards.
> Unless a government agency gets full of themselves and mandates some sort of common, EV specific card, the natural progression is to either a credit card based system or a Tesla like system where the car is the key card. Nothing else makes sense.
That's what the mandate is saying. We must have the option to pay with anonymous credit/debit cards.
> > > The alternative is putting cellular data connections in the EVs like Tesla does adding cost to every vehicle. I think that's going to cost more and there's no way around being tracked. > > I don't really want to drive a car tracking me every second. > Then don't drive. It's not a right, it's a privilege. Besides, if you use Gmaps or Waze you are tracked anyway. Then there are the micro chips you got when you were vaccinated... not to mention the satellites watching you. You don't really think Musk put all those sats in orbit without approval and massive funding from the CIA, FBI, TSA and the Ministry of Truth. > > They are watching all of us, but they are *really* watching YOU!
I know. The money gouging free marketers don't like me.
> > "Cost - $700 million in costs could slow EV charger deployment across California. By CARB&rsquo;s own calculation, an EMV chip reader mandate will add approximately $3,000 to the cost of a charging station over its lifetime - $371 for the hardware and $270/year in operations and maintenance (O&M) costs" > > > whats' the denominator, does it 50% to the cost or 0.1%?
DCFC costs around $50,000 to $80,000.