On 4/6/2021 2:32 PM, bitrex wrote:> On 4/6/2021 2:35 PM, Don Y wrote:>> What a clever way of keeping auto production at an elevated level! >> (and, doing so, under the guise of ensuring public safety!) > > Ever seen a Tokyo apartment? Maybe that's why "virtual goods" are so popular > there.Ever seen a NYC apartment? I am chagrined at how much "stuff" I have! (and, it takes work to rid yourself of it, intelligently) I know many people (in different cities) that don't own cars -- simply because of the cost and hassle of ownership. When I'd drive into Chicago (loop area) to share a pie with a buddy, we'd drive around for 15-20 minutes just to find a parking space. "Why couldn't I park at your condo and we take a CAB down here???!"
OT Tax Rant
Started by ●April 6, 2021
Reply by ●April 6, 20212021-04-06
Reply by ●April 6, 20212021-04-06
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates.IDK, 21% seems OK. I would like to get rid of the 'loop holes' or whatever that let Amazon and others pay ~zero federal tax. George H.> > > > -- > > John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc > > The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 00:30:32 +0200, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:>On 06/04/2021 23:00, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 22:01:47 +0200, David Brown >> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >> >>> On 06/04/2021 21:01, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 20:12:32 +0200, David Brown >>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 06/04/2021 17:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >>>>>> >>>>>> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why not start your own religion, like L. Ron Hubbard? He too had lots >>>>> of fanciful ideas with no grounding in reality, and felt he didn't make >>>>> enough money from his normal work. Someone suggested he started his own >>>>> religion - no restrictions on what you can say and do, no taxes, no >>>>> limits. Tell the tax man you believe electronics works by trapping >>>>> little pixies inside boxes, and you'll get state subsidies and can start >>>>> your own university in Alabama. >>>>> >>>> >>>> If creating businesses and jobs and food and stuff is religion, I'm a >>>> believer. >>>> >>> >>> I had hoped it was obvious that I was joking - mocking the absurdity of >>> the support the USA (and many other countries) have for anything as long >>> as it is called a "religion". (Though this is exactly why Hubbard >>> started Scientology - it was a scam to make money.) >>> >>>> Tax consumption, not production. There's nothing mystical about that. >>>> >>> >>> Usually you (i.e., a country) get best results from taxing a range of >>> things, avoiding taxing any of the them too much or too little. If you >>> concentrate taxation too tightly, people will just find more ways to >>> avoid paying it. >> >> Avoid corporate taxes by buying Chinese. >> > >Norway has approximately the same rate of corporate tax as the USA. >However, in Norway corporate tax makes up 12.5% of the GDP (I'm getting >figures from Wikipedia here), while in the USA it makes up 1.8%. Does >that mean companies in Norway are ten times as successful? Or that 90% >of companies in the USA cheat or dodge their taxes?Norway has enormous North Sea oil revenue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway#Petroleum_and_post-industrialism Against the backdrop of the Norwegian referendum to not join the European Union, the Norwegian Ministry of Industry, headed by Ola Skj�k Br�k moved quickly to establish a national energy policy. Norway decided to stay out of OPEC, keep its own energy prices in line with world markets, and spend the revenue � known as the "currency gift" � wisely. The Norwegian government established its own oil company, Statoil, and awarded drilling and production rights to Norsk Hydro and the newly formed Saga Petroleum. Petroleum exports are taxed at a marginal rate of 78% (standard corporate tax of 24%, and a special petroleum tax of 54%). It's hard for a government-owned oil company to dodge taxes. Or maybe easy. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:02:38 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 4/6/2021 4:01 PM, David Brown wrote: >> On 06/04/2021 21:01, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 20:12:32 +0200, David Brown >>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>> >>>> On 06/04/2021 17:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >>>>> >>>>> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Why not start your own religion, like L. Ron Hubbard? He too had lots >>>> of fanciful ideas with no grounding in reality, and felt he didn't make >>>> enough money from his normal work. Someone suggested he started his own >>>> religion - no restrictions on what you can say and do, no taxes, no >>>> limits. Tell the tax man you believe electronics works by trapping >>>> little pixies inside boxes, and you'll get state subsidies and can start >>>> your own university in Alabama. >>>> >>> >>> If creating businesses and jobs and food and stuff is religion, I'm a >>> believer. >>> >> >> I had hoped it was obvious that I was joking - mocking the absurdity of >> the support the USA (and many other countries) have for anything as long >> as it is called a "religion". (Though this is exactly why Hubbard >> started Scientology - it was a scam to make money.) >> >>> Tax consumption, not production. There's nothing mystical about that. >>> >> >> Usually you (i.e., a country) get best results from taxing a range of >> things, avoiding taxing any of the them too much or too little. If you >> concentrate taxation too tightly, people will just find more ways to >> avoid paying it. Crucially, you have to figure a way to make people >> feel the taxation is approximately fair, and the returns they get for >> their taxes are approximately fair (while realising that people's idea >> of "fair" are often wildly different). >> > >Letting corporations live large and do whatever they want,People can live large. Corporations can't. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:12:28 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:>On 4/6/2021 2:02 PM, bitrex wrote: >> Letting corporations live large and do whatever they want, while having the >> religious police and regular police up your ass everywhere you go and sending a >> bajillion dollars a year of the public's money to the military to buy defective >> toys, plays well in America. Hell, some people even call it "freedom." > >"Corporations are people". Why should one group of "people" not have >to pay taxes while others do? Perhaps we should eliminate some >of the *rights* those "people" have as we reduce their tax burden?They are not people. If a corp pays someone a salary, it's taxed. If it pays someone a dividend, it's double taxed.> >Amusing that a human person commits a crime (e.g., something leading to >loss of life) and he goes to prison.Officers and employees of corporations, if they commit crimes, are legally, and criminally, liable. Of course, you can't put a corporation in prison so corporate violations are usually resolved with other means. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 4:22:10 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:00:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: > > >On 4/6/2021 12:54 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:36:46 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> On 2021/04/06 8:38 a.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>> > >>>> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > >>>> > >>>> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > >>>> > >>> > >>> You want zero corporate taxes, then be willing to lose all legal > >>> corporate protections. You do realize that a lot of government is > >>> devoted to supporting the corporations, protecting them with copyrights, > >>> ensuring the legal fiction of a corporation having a 'person' status, > >>> trademark protection, import controls, clean up after companies go > >>> bankrupt and leave a toxic mess behind... > >>> > >>> Can't have your cake and all that! > >>> > >>> John :-#)# > >>> PS, my businesses are incorporated > >> > >> The greater good of the population should be the goal of government. > >> Companies create jobs and stuff, but don't consume for pleasure; > >> people do that. If we had no corp taxes but taxed people, we'd have > >> more industries and jobs here and *more* tax revenue. > > > >Consume for pleasure? No one consumes only for pleasure, consumption is > >the sine qua non of industrialized society, you must do so. Or you will die. > > People in pre-industrial societies die of starvation a lot more than > we do. So much food in developed countries is unprecedented in > history. Our biggest health problem is obesity. > > It takes communism to create famines.A singularly stupid claim. We had famines long before we had communism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India highlights the fact that famines there happened when the monsoons didn't deliver as much rain as usual. Communist governments do have the tools to alleviate famines, if they can be bothered to use them, but the problem with communism is that it is totalitarian, and if you have a lunatic in charge, they won't bother to use them. You can have the same problem in a nominal democracy. Donald Trump knew about the tools that other nations used to minimise deaths from Covid-19, but wasn't interested enough to apply the kind of pressure that might have seen them used. US Covid-19 deaths are now at 1,715 per million. Thirteen - much smaller - countries have done worse - Gibraltar is at 2,791 deaths per million but New Jersey has got to 2,781 deaths per million, so Trump probably performed as poorly as he could have. Australia is at 35 Covid=19 deaths per million, and Taiwan is at 0.4.> Corporations don't eat much, so don't compete with people for food.But they have a nasty habit of shipping what food there is to the customers who will pay most for it, even if those customers are struggling with obesity, like much of the US population. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:26:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >> >> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > >Germany has probably the highest tax rate to be found anywhere, and their business is booming. I like how they classify a business with over $1B sales annual as cottage industry. It's called mittelstand and comprises a big part of their economic output. The core feature is they actually make "stuff." There's something to be said for making stuff. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand > >https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/corporate-tax-in-germany-108106/ > >The Federal business tax rate in Germany is 15%. Of course business is booming. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:>On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >> >> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > >Sounds good to me. Just tax all profits taken from companies by owners at 75%.Taken? I get a salary for working.> >Currently we tax that money twice, so just tax it once, but really big.Dividends are taxed twice, which is one reason there aren't a lot of dividends.>If the owners are also employees, they have to take a reasonable salary. That means they pay FICA. Anything they take out that isn't salary should be at a high rate independent of their salary.The only way to "take out" is dividends, already taxed twice. Of course one might sell out, at the capital gains rate. But you are talking jealousy, not rational policy. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT), George Herold <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:>On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >> >> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. >IDK, 21% seems OK. I would like to get rid of the 'loop holes' or whatever that let Amazon and others pay ~zero federal tax.They do that by offshoring assets. Non-American companies do that automatically. Tax US companies enough, and they will relocate to Aruba, or go out of business. So don't tax them at all, and keep the jobs here. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:26:28 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > > > My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > > Germany has probably the highest tax rate to be found anywhere, and their business is booming. I like how they classify a business with over $1B sales annual as cottage industry. It's called mittelstand and comprises a big part of their economic output. The core feature is they actually make "stuff." There's something to be said for making stuff. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand > > https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/corporate-tax-in-germany-108106/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio France is the actual leader at 46.2%, with Sweden close behind at 44%. Germany is a 37.5%. The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in Germany - like universal health care - gets paid for out of non-tax extractions in the US. The main advantage of making "stuff" is that even the dumbest commentator can understand it. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
