On 4/6/2021 8:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT), George Herold > <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >>> >>> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. >> IDK, 21% seems OK. I would like to get rid of the 'loop holes' or whatever that let Amazon and others pay ~zero federal tax. > > They do that by offshoring assets. Non-American companies do that > automatically. > > Tax US companies enough, and they will relocate to Aruba, or go out of > business. > > So don't tax them at all, and keep the jobs here.US Tax Law favored entities relocating to Puerto Rico. Many pharmaceutical companies set up shop, there -- instead of their locations in New Jersey, Michigan, etc. Their once strong position, there, has been eroded. Not by lower taxes but by lower production costs -- in places like India, China, etc. Do you think we make cars in MX because the *taxes* are lower? Do you think we have boards built in China because the taxes are lower? Or, the shipping costs are gummit subsidized? Is it because US vendors are inept and can't make a decent board? Solution: come up with a common rate of pay for all workers, right? And, as we can't force other countries to bring their pay *up*, lets just deflate US wages! Of course, that means all US industries will see a corresponding decline in revenues as they'll have to lower their prices in order to sell product; not only won't the US market be able to afford their products but the foreign markets (that we're trying to emulate with low wages) won't either! Trivial solutions are usually silly.
OT Tax Rant
Started by ●April 6, 2021
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:59:41 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:12:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote: > > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 4:22:10 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote: > > > On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:00:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: > > > > > > >On 4/6/2021 12:54 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:36:46 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> On 2021/04/06 8:38 a.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > > >>>> > > > >>>> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> You want zero corporate taxes, then be willing to lose all legal > > > >>> corporate protections. You do realize that a lot of government is > > > >>> devoted to supporting the corporations, protecting them with copyrights, > > > >>> ensuring the legal fiction of a corporation having a 'person' status, > > > >>> trademark protection, import controls, clean up after companies go > > > >>> bankrupt and leave a toxic mess behind... > > > >>> > > > >>> Can't have your cake and all that! > > > >>> > > > >>> John :-#)# > > > >>> PS, my businesses are incorporated > > > >> > > > >> The greater good of the population should be the goal of government. > > > >> Companies create jobs and stuff, but don't consume for pleasure; > > > >> people do that. If we had no corp taxes but taxed people, we'd have > > > >> more industries and jobs here and *more* tax revenue. > > > > > > > >Consume for pleasure? No one consumes only for pleasure, consumption is > > > >the sine qua non of industrialized society, you must do so. Or you will die. > > > > > > People in pre-industrial societies die of starvation a lot more than > > > we do. So much food in developed countries is unprecedented in > > > history. Our biggest health problem is obesity. > > > > > > It takes communism to create famines. > > > > A singularly stupid claim. We had famines long before we had communism. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India > > > > highlights the fact that famines there happened when the monsoons didn't deliver as much rain as usual. > > > > Communist governments do have the tools to alleviate famines, if they can be bothered to use them, but the problem with communism is that it is totalitarian, and if you have a lunatic in charge, they won't bother to use them. You can have the same problem in a nominal democracy. Donald Trump knew about the tools that other nations used to minimise deaths from Covid-19, but wasn't interested enough to apply the kind of pressure that might have seen them used. > > > > US Covid-19 deaths are now at 1,715 per million. Thirteen - much smaller - countries have done worse - Gibraltar is at 2,791 deaths per million but New Jersey has got to 2,781 deaths per million, so Trump probably performed as poorly as he could have. > > > > Australia is at 35 Covid=19 deaths per million, and Taiwan is at 0.4. > > > > > Corporations don't eat much, so don't compete with people for food. > > > > But they have a nasty habit of shipping what food there is to the customers who will pay most for it, even if those customers are struggling with obesity, like much of the US population. > > The "problem" with communism is that it doesn't work.It worked well enough that the communist Soviet Union defeated the German in invaders1941-45. It doesn't work well - totalitarian governments never work all that well - but Nazi Germany was also totalitrarian.> Early colonial settlers, the Pilgrims, tried communism and literally starved: > > https://www.heritage.org/markets-and-finance/commentary/pilgrims-beat-communism-free-marketThat might have looked like "communism" to the Heritage Foundation, which is a right wing propaganda group. Communism - as it is currently understood - hadn't been invented back then. What they are complaining about is authoritarian incompetence, which tends to be a disaster whatever political ideas are used to justify it.> They returned to free market competition and thrived.Some of them did, and the survivors wrote the history. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
Bill Sloman wrote:> The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in > Germany - like universal health careNo, that is paid for by (mandatory) health insurance in Germany, not tax revenue. -- robert
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:31:26 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:26:28 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > > > > > My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > > > > Germany has probably the highest tax rate to be found anywhere, and their business is booming. I like how they classify a business with over $1B sales annual as cottage industry. It's called mittelstand and comprises a big part of their economic output. The core feature is they actually make "stuff." There's something to be said for making stuff. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand > > > > https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/corporate-tax-in-germany-108106/ > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio > > France is the actual leader at 46.2%, with Sweden close behind at 44%. Germany is a 37.5%. > > The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in Germany - like universal health care - gets paid for out of non-tax extractions in the US. > > The main advantage of making "stuff" is that even the dumbest commentator can understand it.That would include the likes of Angela Merkel who used that description in so many words when asked to what does she attribute Germany's economic success.> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:45:09 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:31:26 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote: > > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:26:28 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > > https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > > > > > > > My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > > > > > > Germany has probably the highest tax rate to be found anywhere, and their business is booming. I like how they classify a business with over $1B sales annual as cottage industry. It's called mittelstand and comprises a big part of their economic output. The core feature is they actually make "stuff." There's something to be said for making stuff. > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand > > > > > > https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/corporate-tax-in-germany-108106/ > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio > > > > France is the actual leader at 46.2%, with Sweden close behind at 44%. Germany is a 37.5%. > > > > The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in Germany - like universal health care - gets paid for out of non-tax extractions in the US. > > > > The main advantage of making "stuff" is that even the dumbest commentator can understand it. > > That would include the likes of Angela Merkel who used that description in so many words when asked to what does she attribute Germany's economic success.She is a successful politician, but she mostly delivers her political rhetoric in German. What's you actual example of her actually saying that? -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:17:55 PM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:> Bill Sloman wrote: > > > The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in Germany - like universal health care. > > No, that is paid for by (mandatory) health insurance in Germany, not tax revenue.Economists mostly class mandatory health insurance as a tax. Right-wing politicians prefer not to, but mandatory payments look very like a tax when you end up having to pay them. If you are on social security, the government will pay them for you. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:14:50 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:45:09 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:31:26 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote: > > > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:26:28 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > > > https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > > > > > > > > > My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > > > > > > > > Germany has probably the highest tax rate to be found anywhere, and their business is booming. I like how they classify a business with over $1B sales annual as cottage industry. It's called mittelstand and comprises a big part of their economic output. The core feature is they actually make "stuff." There's something to be said for making stuff. > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand > > > > > > > > https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/corporate-tax-in-germany-108106/ > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio > > > > > > France is the actual leader at 46.2%, with Sweden close behind at 44%. Germany is a 37.5%. > > > > > > The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in Germany - like universal health care - gets paid for out of non-tax extractions in the US. > > > > > > The main advantage of making "stuff" is that even the dumbest commentator can understand it. > > > > That would include the likes of Angela Merkel who used that description in so many words when asked to what does she attribute Germany's economic success. > She is a successful politician, but she mostly delivers her political rhetoric in German. What's you actual example of her actually saying that?She told that to that worthless Brit, Blair: "Tony Blair, the former prime minister of Britain, once asked German Chancellor Angela Merkel why her country’s economy was so resilient. Her response was at once playful, a bit chiding and very matter-of-fact: “Mr. Blair, we still make things.”" Don't ask me for links, jackass. This will be the last one you get. https://www.kornferry.com/insights/articles/75-germany-revs-its-export-engine dw.com contains a video report on it too. You look it up. Anyone who thinks Germany is just a matter of methodology is missing the point- too dumb to give consideration to.> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:37:13 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:14:50 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote: > > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:45:09 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:31:26 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:26:28 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > > > > https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation > > > > > > > > > > > > My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. > > > > > > > > > > Germany has probably the highest tax rate to be found anywhere, and their business is booming. I like how they classify a business with over $1B sales annual as cottage industry. It's called mittelstand and comprises a big part of their economic output. The core feature is they actually make "stuff." There's something to be said for making stuff. > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand > > > > > > > > > > https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/corporate-tax-in-germany-108106/ > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio > > > > > > > > France is the actual leader at 46.2%, with Sweden close behind at 44%. Germany is a 37.5%. > > > > > > > > The US is at 27.1%, but lots of stuff that gets paid out of tax revenue in Germany - like universal health care - gets paid for out of non-tax extractions in the US. > > > > > > > > The main advantage of making "stuff" is that even the dumbest commentator can understand it. > > > > > > That would include the likes of Angela Merkel who used that description in so many words when asked to what does she attribute Germany's economic success. > > > She is a successful politician, but she mostly delivers her political rhetoric in German. What's you actual example of her actually saying that? > > She told that to that worthless Brit, Blair: > > "Tony Blair, the former prime minister of Britain, once asked German Chancellor Angela Merkel why her country’s economy was so resilient. Her response was at once playful, a bit chiding and very matter-of-fact: “Mr. Blair, we still make things.” > > Don't ask me for links, jackass. This will be the last one you get.Since it reveals it to be a very old quote delivered to one of Britain's more worthless politicians, it rather confirms my opinion of the intellectual content of the message. One can understand how you can resent being shown up.> https://www.kornferry.com/insights/articles/75-germany-revs-its-export-engine > > dw.com contains a video report on it too. You look it up.Why bother?> Anyone who thinks Germany is just a matter of methodology is missing the point- too dumb to give consideration to.I don't think I was suggesting that. One has to wonder what particular "methodology" you might have had in mind; Germany does take engineering seriously, which helps a lot, but it also takes equality of opportunity pretty seriously. The kind of people who took more vacuous kinds of ideology seriously got thinned out a lot between 1930 and 1945. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On 07/04/2021 05:02, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 00:30:32 +0200, David Brown > <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:>> >> Norway has approximately the same rate of corporate tax as the USA. >> However, in Norway corporate tax makes up 12.5% of the GDP (I'm getting >> figures from Wikipedia here), while in the USA it makes up 1.8%. Does >> that mean companies in Norway are ten times as successful? Or that 90% >> of companies in the USA cheat or dodge their taxes? > > Norway has enormous North Sea oil revenue.Really? I'm glad you are here to tell me that.> > It's hard for a government-owned oil company to dodge taxes. Or maybe > easy. >Very few people or companies dodge taxes in Norway. Even the richest people do a lot less of the "creative accountancy" than in most countries. The reason is that on the whole, people understand the benefit of it and trust the government as being on the side of the people and the country.
Reply by ●April 7, 20212021-04-07
On 4/7/2021 1:16 AM, Don Y wrote:> On 4/6/2021 8:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT), George Herold >> <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:38:39 AM UTC-4, >>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> https://theweek.com/articles/975735/janet-yellens-proposal-revolutionize-corporate-taxation >>>> >>>> >>>> My counter-offer to Yellin is zero corporate tax rates. >>> IDK, 21% seems OK. I would like to get rid of the 'loop holes' or >>> whatever that let Amazon and others pay ~zero federal tax. >> >> They do that by offshoring assets. Non-American companies do that >> automatically. >> >> Tax US companies enough, and they will relocate to Aruba, or go out of >> business. >> >> So don't tax them at all, and keep the jobs here. > > US Tax Law favored entities relocating to Puerto Rico. Many pharmaceutical > companies set up shop, there -- instead of their locations in New Jersey, > Michigan, etc. > > Their once strong position, there, has been eroded. Not by lower taxes > but by lower production costs -- in places like India, China, etc. > > Do you think we make cars in MX because the *taxes* are lower? > Do you think we have boards built in China because the taxes > are lower? Or, the shipping costs are gummit subsidized? Is > it because US vendors are inept and can't make a decent board? > > Solution: come up with a common rate of pay for all workers, right? > And, as we can't force other countries to bring their pay *up*, lets > just deflate US wages! > > Of course, that means all US industries will see a corresponding > decline in revenues as they'll have to lower their prices in order > to sell product; not only won't the US market be able to afford their > products but the foreign markets (that we're trying to emulate > with low wages) won't either! > > Trivial solutions are usually silly.Can't wait for the GOP to select Marjorie Taylor Greene as the presidential candidate for 2024. She'll drop corporate taxes to 0%, make QAnon the state religion, and begin putting thousands of the pedophiles Jesus told her were pedophiles to death. It's going to be great for business...
