> Now there's an issue, sometimes it's not obvious > which kind of part a designer has chosen, and I've > been forced to look up the listed part just to find > out.The channel line is sometimes drawn dashed in the Little-endian symbol to indicate enhancement mode. Unfortunately due to the relative rarity of depletion MOSFETs, it doesn't seem to have caught on. Cheers Phil Hobbs
Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols?
Started by ●May 22, 2017
Reply by ●May 28, 20172017-05-28
Reply by ●May 28, 20172017-05-28
On Sun, 28 May 2017 15:14:08 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:>>�Now there's an issue, sometimes it's not obvious >>�which kind of part a designer has chosen, and I've >>�been forced to look up the listed part just to find >>�out. > >The channel line is sometimes drawn dashed in the Little-endian symbol to indicate enhancement mode. Unfortunately due to the relative rarity of depletion MOSFETs, it doesn't seem to have caught on. > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs"Standard" in the I/C world for a depletion MOS device is a double line for the channel. I delight when a foundry process has them... they're extremely useful for kick-starting bandgaps, then disconnecting the mirror values from dependency on VDD-VSS. Unlike d/dt kick-starters depletion mode kick-starters always restart properly on a brown-out. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
Reply by ●May 28, 20172017-05-28
On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>Den s�ndag den 28. maj 2017 kl. 22.19.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> On Sun, 28 May 2017 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >>It's perfectly clear to people who understand the parts. >> > >> >I have no interest in legislating how anyone draws schematics, except maybe people who hypothetically might work for me. I'm sure your methods keep blunders under control. For myself, I'd never draw FETs like that, because the trivial extra time investment is repaid by ease of spotting cases of synapse failure, lock-up states, and so on. >> > >> >>It would be best to include every mosfet property in every schematic >> >>symbol: >> > >> >Sure--plus maybe a big zener to illustrate avalanche behaviour and a small tank of magic smoke. ;) >> > >> >You have to stop someplace--Big- and Little-Endians just disagree about exactly where. >> > >> >Cheers >> > >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> What is this endian thing about? >> > >I assume that it the discussion is about as silly as the original source >of the term little-endian/big-endian > >"the "endian" names were drawn from Jonathan Swift's 1726 satire, Gulliver's Travels, in which civil war erupts over whether the big end or the little end of a boiled egg is the proper end to crack open" > > >The only good low-endian is a dead low-endian. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●May 28, 20172017-05-28
On Sun, 28 May 2017 15:25:12 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sun, 28 May 2017 15:14:08 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: > >>>�Now there's an issue, sometimes it's not obvious >>>�which kind of part a designer has chosen, and I've >>>�been forced to look up the listed part just to find >>>�out. >> >>The channel line is sometimes drawn dashed in the Little-endian symbol to indicate enhancement mode. Unfortunately due to the relative rarity of depletion MOSFETs, it doesn't seem to have caught on. >> >>Cheers >> >>Phil Hobbs > >"Standard" in the I/C world for a depletion MOS device is a double >line for the channel.As in... <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/JT_PSpice_Symbols.pdf>> >I delight when a foundry process has them... they're extremely useful >for kick-starting bandgaps, then disconnecting the mirror values from >dependency on VDD-VSS. > >Unlike d/dt kick-starters depletion mode kick-starters always restart >properly on a brown-out. > > ...Jim Thompson...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
Reply by ●May 28, 20172017-05-28
On Sun, 28 May 2017 16:22:06 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen ><langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > >>Den s�ndag den 28. maj 2017 kl. 22.19.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >>> On Sun, 28 May 2017 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>It's perfectly clear to people who understand the parts. >>> > >>> >I have no interest in legislating how anyone draws schematics, except maybe people who hypothetically might work for me. I'm sure your methods keep blunders under control. For myself, I'd never draw FETs like that, because the trivial extra time investment is repaid by ease of spotting cases of synapse failure, lock-up states, and so on. >>> > >>> >>It would be best to include every mosfet property in every schematic >>> >>symbol: >>> > >>> >Sure--plus maybe a big zener to illustrate avalanche behaviour and a small tank of magic smoke. ;) >>> > >>> >You have to stop someplace--Big- and Little-Endians just disagree about exactly where. >>> > >>> >Cheers >>> > >>> >Phil Hobbs >>> >>> What is this endian thing about? >>> >> >>I assume that it the discussion is about as silly as the original source >>of the term little-endian/big-endian >> >>"the "endian" names were drawn from Jonathan Swift's 1726 satire, Gulliver's Travels, in which civil war erupts over whether the big end or the little end of a boiled egg is the proper end to crack open" >> >> >> > >The only good low-endian is a dead low-endian.How racist!
Reply by ●May 28, 20172017-05-28
On Sun, 28 May 2017 19:37:36 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:>On Sun, 28 May 2017 16:22:06 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >><langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>>Den s�ndag den 28. maj 2017 kl. 22.19.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >>>> On Sun, 28 May 2017 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>It's perfectly clear to people who understand the parts. >>>> > >>>> >I have no interest in legislating how anyone draws schematics, except maybe people who hypothetically might work for me. I'm sure your methods keep blunders under control. For myself, I'd never draw FETs like that, because the trivial extra time investment is repaid by ease of spotting cases of synapse failure, lock-up states, and so on. >>>> > >>>> >>It would be best to include every mosfet property in every schematic >>>> >>symbol: >>>> > >>>> >Sure--plus maybe a big zener to illustrate avalanche behaviour and a small tank of magic smoke. ;) >>>> > >>>> >You have to stop someplace--Big- and Little-Endians just disagree about exactly where. >>>> > >>>> >Cheers >>>> > >>>> >Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> What is this endian thing about? >>>> >>> >>>I assume that it the discussion is about as silly as the original source >>>of the term little-endian/big-endian >>> >>>"the "endian" names were drawn from Jonathan Swift's 1726 satire, Gulliver's Travels, in which civil war erupts over whether the big end or the little end of a boiled egg is the proper end to crack open" >>> >>> >>> >> >>The only good low-endian is a dead low-endian. > >How racist!I can't help myself. I was brought up hating Intel CPUs. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●May 29, 20172017-05-29
John Larkin wrote on 5/28/2017 9:41 PM:> On Sun, 28 May 2017 19:37:36 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >> On Sun, 28 May 2017 16:22:06 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> >>>> Den s�ndag den 28. maj 2017 kl. 22.19.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >>>>> On Sun, 28 May 2017 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> It's perfectly clear to people who understand the parts. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have no interest in legislating how anyone draws schematics, except maybe people who hypothetically might work for me. I'm sure your methods keep blunders under control. For myself, I'd never draw FETs like that, because the trivial extra time investment is repaid by ease of spotting cases of synapse failure, lock-up states, and so on. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It would be best to include every mosfet property in every schematic >>>>>>> symbol: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure--plus maybe a big zener to illustrate avalanche behaviour and a small tank of magic smoke. ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> You have to stop someplace--Big- and Little-Endians just disagree about exactly where. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>>> What is this endian thing about? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I assume that it the discussion is about as silly as the original source >>>> of the term little-endian/big-endian >>>> >>>> "the "endian" names were drawn from Jonathan Swift's 1726 satire, Gulliver's Travels, in which civil war erupts over whether the big end or the little end of a boiled egg is the proper end to crack open" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The only good low-endian is a dead low-endian. >> >> How racist! > > I can't help myself. I was brought up hating Intel CPUs.Intel, the CPU we all love to hate! Well, I don't. What's wrong with Intel CPUs? Intel has designed about $XXX worth of CPU chips, critical to maybe $YYY of process, using their CPU architecture, and it all worked (except for a few little floating point bugs here and there), and they got paid. And they don't regret it. Kinda makes John Larkin look pretty small doesn't it? -- Rick C
Reply by ●May 29, 20172017-05-29
>Intel, the CPU we all love to hate! Well, I don't. >What's wrong with Intel CPUs?I don't care about byte ordering, but I sure do care about the AMT spy subsystem. YCLIU. Server-class ARM machines can't get here soon enough for me. I use 2011-vintage, 24-core AMD machines that predate AMD's version of AMT. Cheers Phil Hobbs
Reply by ●May 29, 20172017-05-29
On Mon, 29 May 2017 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:>>Intel, the CPU we all love to hate! �Well, I don't. � >>What's wrong with Intel CPUs? > >I don't care about byte ordering, but I sure do care about the AMT spy subsystem. YCLIU. > >Server-class ARM machines can't get here soon enough for me. > >I use 2011-vintage, 24-core AMD machines that predate AMD's version of AMT. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThe memory management/protection in x86 is so bad that nobody uses it. Which is why we have had thousands of buffer-overrun exploits. Intel never managed to tell the difference between data and stack and code. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●May 29, 20172017-05-29
On a sunny day (Mon, 29 May 2017 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT)) it happened pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote in <6d4ceb28-e6d6-4a8b-9256-4f56d76df11c@googlegroups.com>:>>Intel, the CPU we all love to hate! Well, I don't. >>What's wrong with Intel CPUs? > >I don't care about byte ordering, but I sure do care about the AMT spy subs= >ystem. YCLIU.Could you expand on that a bit? Google gives nothing much? I know they know everything but am still interested how they know it. I use both AMD (this PC) and Intel (laptops), some quite recent versions.>Server-class ARM machines can't get here soon enough for me. > >I use 2011-vintage, 24-core AMD machines that predate AMD's version of AMT.I use PICs with my own TCP/IP stack, now what are they gonna do about that? Has the Raspberry Broadcom processor spy hardware build in too? Or is it in the ethernet controller IP? BTW I commie-nukate with pieces of paper and Caesar cipher Have even given up and surrendered and installed a html5 browser, it is 10 x slower, partly written in what looks like java, and no idea what it does to my system.. Paranoid bloated world. Now 3 PICs online !
