On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:>"John Larkin" wrote in message >news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... > >On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >> >>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>> >>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>> >>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >> >>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >> >>Pardon? > >>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. > >I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) > >John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". > >*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >that convince investors and shareholders. > >I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. > > >-- Kevin Aylward >http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.htmlLT Spice has sold a lot of LT parts. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
Started by ●March 10, 2017
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:39:18 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:>"Jim Thompson" wrote in message >news:ia4bcc9e1dh1uq7pf004t2p4on11gokme7@4ax.com... > >On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >> >>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>> >>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>> >>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >> >>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >> >>Pardon? >> >>http://www.anasoft.co.uk/worstcase.htm >> >>LTSpice is a freebee that lacks major key features for productive, >>professional use, imo... >> >>Anyone can piss about and make a one off work. >> > >>I think most people who have used, and swear by LTspice have never >>used, or even been exposed to, a professional simulation tool. > >I agree. Or actually design ICs that have to work when sold in the millions >per month range. > >The reality, is that of the 3,000,000 downloads, the bulk are used by >students and amateurs. By that I mean this. > >The bulk of all electronics is IC electronics. That is, billions and >billions of 10,000s of different products, sold every year are integrated >circuits. The number of products with no ICs, is pretty much in the noise. >This ranges from TVs, medical scanners, mobile phones, you name it, it is >IC based. > >None of these designs (except maybe Linear Tech :-) ) are taped out using >LTSpice. Its all professional tools, costing real money. Yeah, I am making a >statement without actually have provable numbers, but maybe the one that >does, don't post here to contradict me. > > > >-- Kevin Aylward >http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.htmlI don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is a great tool for helping me do that. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On 3/12/2017 4:16 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:39:18 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" > <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >> "Jim Thompson" wrote in message >> news:ia4bcc9e1dh1uq7pf004t2p4on11gokme7@4ax.com... >> >> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> "M Philbrook" wrote in message >>> news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>> >>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>> >>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>> >>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>> for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>> that are PRODUCTIVE. >>> >>> Pardon? >>> >>> http://www.anasoft.co.uk/worstcase.htm >>> >>> LTSpice is a freebee that lacks major key features for productive, >>> professional use, imo... >>> >>> Anyone can piss about and make a one off work. >>> >> >>> I think most people who have used, and swear by LTspice have never >>> used, or even been exposed to, a professional simulation tool. >> >> I agree. Or actually design ICs that have to work when sold in the millions >> per month range. >> >> The reality, is that of the 3,000,000 downloads, the bulk are used by >> students and amateurs. By that I mean this. >> >> The bulk of all electronics is IC electronics. That is, billions and >> billions of 10,000s of different products, sold every year are integrated >> circuits. The number of products with no ICs, is pretty much in the noise. >> This ranges from TVs, medical scanners, mobile phones, you name it, it is >> IC based. >> >> None of these designs (except maybe Linear Tech :-) ) are taped out using >> LTSpice. Its all professional tools, costing real money. Yeah, I am making a >> statement without actually have provable numbers, but maybe the one that >> does, don't post here to contradict me. >> >> >> >> -- Kevin Aylward >> http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html > > > I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is > a great tool for helping me do that.I agree, John. I never simulate my entire design, just parts of it to answer my immediate questions. Then I go to the bench. I bought SuperSpice some years ago and found it almost impossible to use even with Kevin's help. That is why I now use LTSpice. It is friendly and just works. By digging a little, its usefulness can be greatly increased. Also, it seems to be used by many respected professional engineers on this group.
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
John Larkin wrote...> > I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell > boards. LT Spice is a great tool for helping me do that.I'm a longtime user of Intusoft's SPICE. It has superior schematic entry and output graphing and both are more amenable to publishable stuff. I've played with LTSpice on and off, but the UI sucks and I'm not impressed with the graphing, except maybe for super-long plots for SMPS evaluation, what it was designed for in the first place. -- Thanks, - Win
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On 12 Mar 2017 14:30:54 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:>John Larkin wrote... >> >> I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell >> boards. LT Spice is a great tool for helping me do that. > > I'm a longtime user of Intusoft's SPICE. It has > superior schematic entry and output graphing and > both are more amenable to publishable stuff. I've > played with LTSpice on and off, but the UI sucks > and I'm not impressed with the graphing, except > maybe for super-long plots for SMPS evaluation, > what it was designed for in the first place.Most of LTspice's won't run on any other simulator... which I consider to be a very STUPID marketing move. And it was done quite purposefully... several years ago I noticed that updates were replacing Berkeley-compliant models with encrypted versions that run only on LTspice, so I quickly saved all their models to a separate directory. So I only use LTspice to verify that my model writings will run there as well as on Berkeley-compliant simulators... at the insistence of clients ;-) As for the UI sucking... sucking a Chandler Heights (*) sized LEMON... usually the size of soft balls... for those of you unaware of the Arizona citrus trade. (*) Two miles to the west of me. As for IntuSoft's Spice, pretty good simulator engine, but GUI and post-processing still not up to original-flavor MicroSim PSpice (which I have used since DOS days with hand-written netlists :-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:16:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote:> I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is a > great tool for helping me do that.Kev is obviously heavily biased against LT because he views it as a free and unwelcome alternative to his SS, so his denigratory remarks have to be seen in that light.
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:00:02 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:16:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote: > >> I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is a >> great tool for helping me do that. > >Kev is obviously heavily biased against LT because he views it as a free >and unwelcome alternative to his SS, so his denigratory remarks have to >be seen in that light.I take it you've used neither? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:48:34 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:> As for IntuSoft's Spice, pretty good simulator engine, but GUI and > post-processing still not up to original-flavor MicroSim PSpice (which I > have used since DOS days with hand-written netlists :-)PSpice is probably the best implementation ever ever ever.
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On 12 Mar 2017 14:30:54 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:>John Larkin wrote... >> >> I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell >> boards. LT Spice is a great tool for helping me do that. > > I'm a longtime user of Intusoft's SPICE. It has > superior schematic entry and output graphing and > both are more amenable to publishable stuff.I don't publish stuff, I sell stuff; different application. I see nothing wrong with the schematic entry or the graphing. I can enter and sim a simple circuit in a couple of minutes. I have sent screen shots to customers and put them in manuals. They are plenty good enough. I've> played with LTSpice on and off, but the UI sucks > and I'm not impressed with the graphing, except > maybe for super-long plots for SMPS evaluation, > what it was designed for in the first place.I works fine for me. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:00:02 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:16:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote: > >> I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is a >> great tool for helping me do that. > >Kev is obviously heavily biased against LT because he views it as a free >and unwelcome alternative to his SS, so his denigratory remarks have to >be seen in that light.Lotsa Spice Snobs here. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
