On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:>"John Larkin" wrote in message >news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... > >On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >> >>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>> >>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>> >>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >> >>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >> >>Pardon? > >>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. > >I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) > >John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". > >*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >that convince investors and shareholders. > >I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me.I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies (where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify their prices.
LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
Started by ●March 10, 2017
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >> >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>> >>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>> >>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>> >>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>> >>>Pardon? >> >>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >> >>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >> >>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". >> >>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >>that convince investors and shareholders. >> >>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. > >I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >their prices.We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has probably sold gigabucks of parts so far. Some of their parts are good deals. Not gumdrop opamps or regulators, but things like fast ADCs and multi-channel serial DACs. We've used thousands of their LTM micro-brick switchers. Nice quiet little things. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:20:41 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >>> >>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> >>>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>>> >>>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>>> >>>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>>> >>>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>>> >>>>Pardon? >>> >>>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >>> >>>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >>> >>>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >>>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". >>> >>>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >>>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >>>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >>>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >>>that convince investors and shareholders. >>> >>>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. >> >>I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >>its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >>(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >>their prices. > >We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us >about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me >that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has >probably sold gigabucks of parts so far. > >Some of their parts are good deals. Not gumdrop opamps or regulators, >but things like fast ADCs and multi-channel serial DACs. > >We've used thousands of their LTM micro-brick switchers. Nice quiet >little things.Way too expensive. When we can buy SMPS regulator chips for well less than $.50 (and add another $.20 for passives), these sorts of things don't hold the interest much.
Reply by ●March 12, 20172017-03-12
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:46:37 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:20:41 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>>>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >>>> >>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> >>>>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>>>> >>>>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>>>> >>>>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>>>> >>>>>Pardon? >>>> >>>>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >>>> >>>>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >>>> >>>>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>>>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >>>>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". >>>> >>>>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >>>>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >>>>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >>>>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >>>>that convince investors and shareholders. >>>> >>>>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>>>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. >>> >>>I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >>>its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >>>(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >>>their prices. >> >>We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us >>about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me >>that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has >>probably sold gigabucks of parts so far. >> >>Some of their parts are good deals. Not gumdrop opamps or regulators, >>but things like fast ADCs and multi-channel serial DACs. >> >>We've used thousands of their LTM micro-brick switchers. Nice quiet >>little things. > >Way too expensive. When we can buy SMPS regulator chips for well less >than $.50 (and add another $.20 for passives), these sorts of things >don't hold the interest much."Expensive" depends on the context. They are small, convenient, and as I noted, very quiet. Two inches away from a 250 MHz, 12 bit ADC, I don't want a lot of switching spikes in my ground plane. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●March 13, 20172017-03-13
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:58:33 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:46:37 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:20:41 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>>>>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >>>>> >>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>>>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> >>>>>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>>>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>>>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>>>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>>>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>>>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>>>>> >>>>>>Pardon? >>>>> >>>>>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>>>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >>>>> >>>>>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >>>>> >>>>>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>>>>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >>>>>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". >>>>> >>>>>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >>>>>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >>>>>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >>>>>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >>>>>that convince investors and shareholders. >>>>> >>>>>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>>>>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. >>>> >>>>I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >>>>its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >>>>(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >>>>their prices. >>> >>>We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us >>>about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me >>>that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has >>>probably sold gigabucks of parts so far. >>> >>>Some of their parts are good deals. Not gumdrop opamps or regulators, >>>but things like fast ADCs and multi-channel serial DACs. >>> >>>We've used thousands of their LTM micro-brick switchers. Nice quiet >>>little things. >> >>Way too expensive. When we can buy SMPS regulator chips for well less >>than $.50 (and add another $.20 for passives), these sorts of things >>don't hold the interest much. > >"Expensive" depends on the context. They are small, convenient, and as >I noted, very quiet. Two inches away from a 250 MHz, 12 bit ADC, I >don't want a lot of switching spikes in my ground plane.You've just stated my point about LTSpice, and LT in general. Great stuff, if you're making tens or hundreds a month. Not so great if you're making thousands or hundreds of thousands. TI doesn't give much support for people making tens or hundreds but... It's a matter of market. LTSpice allows LT to go after the high margin business, where they want to play. TI, for instance, has a completely different marketing model.
Reply by ●March 13, 20172017-03-13
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 23:05:33 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:58:33 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:46:37 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:20:41 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>>>>>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >>>>>> >>>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>>>>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>>>>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing how >>>>>>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>>>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher the >>>>>>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>>>>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>>>>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Pardon? >>>>>> >>>>>>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>>>>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >>>>>> >>>>>>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>>>>>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible to >>>>>>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". >>>>>> >>>>>>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >>>>>>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >>>>>>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >>>>>>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >>>>>>that convince investors and shareholders. >>>>>> >>>>>>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>>>>>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. >>>>> >>>>>I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >>>>>its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >>>>>(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >>>>>their prices. >>>> >>>>We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us >>>>about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me >>>>that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has >>>>probably sold gigabucks of parts so far. >>>> >>>>Some of their parts are good deals. Not gumdrop opamps or regulators, >>>>but things like fast ADCs and multi-channel serial DACs. >>>> >>>>We've used thousands of their LTM micro-brick switchers. Nice quiet >>>>little things. >>> >>>Way too expensive. When we can buy SMPS regulator chips for well less >>>than $.50 (and add another $.20 for passives), these sorts of things >>>don't hold the interest much. >> >>"Expensive" depends on the context. They are small, convenient, and as >>I noted, very quiet. Two inches away from a 250 MHz, 12 bit ADC, I >>don't want a lot of switching spikes in my ground plane. > >You've just stated my point about LTSpice, and LT in general. Great >stuff, if you're making tens or hundreds a month. Not so great if >you're making thousands or hundreds of thousands. TI doesn't give >much support for people making tens or hundreds but...If I post a question to one of the TI forums, somebody generally answers it pretty promptly, and usually fairly well. I actually have some support contacts at TI, but I think the forums work about as well in most cases. My question and answer get googl indexed for the rest of the world to see. Distributor FAEs work for small companies too.> >It's a matter of market. LTSpice allows LT to go after the high >margin business, where they want to play. TI, for instance, has a >completely different marketing model. >Sure. We average about 20% overall parts cost compared to selling price. Half of that is PC boards and packaging. So I don't worry much about parts cost. I do use cheap TI synchronous switchers and external Ls and Cs when it's reasonable, and when I have a lot of them on a board. On a production run of, say, 50 or 100 pieces, it's good to minimize the number of line items on the BOM. Every part has to be loaded into feeders and such. Hey, I use LT Spice for non-LT sims. UniversalOpamp2 is handy. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●March 13, 20172017-03-13
May be it looks a little bit home made and uses odd shortcuts but it has one feature that makes entering schematics as fast as no second program I know: There is no need to place wires from pin to pin! Just place a few parts, then draw a wire right through them and when you end the wire (right click or escape) all lines that would short a component magically disappear. Also, if you place a component right over a wire, the piece of wire under the component is automatically deleted. Frequently used components like resistors, inductors, diodes or ground symbols can be inserted without moving the mouse to a menu by typing r, l, d or g. Rotate is ctrl-r but mirror is _not_ ctrl-m :-( Anyhow, very nice imho! Robert
Reply by ●March 13, 20172017-03-13
"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message news:oa4gd2$h3o$12@dont-email.me... On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:16:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote:> I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is a > great tool for helping me do that.>Kev is obviously heavily biased against LT because he views it as a free >and unwelcome alternative to his SS, so his denigratory remarks have to >be seen in that light.Simply not true. I wrote SS for *ME*. I wrote it after evaluation all available spices at the time around 1996. Other than, PSpice, they all had shit GUIs. Any money I get from SS, goes straight to my 80 year old mother, not me. I give an accurate, non biased view, as an engineer. Period. Believe what you want. I have repeatedly stated that LTSpice, to my knowledge, has the fastest and best convergence of any PC Spice. However, its GUI, is a joke. Seriously. For me, its the twilight zone how anyone can find its GUI ok. If the GUI was usable, I would be using it. I want the best speed and convergence and features myself. Dah... LTSpice simply does not have the core features that I *need* and use *every* day, as a companion to Cadence Virtuoso in my professional IC design work. http://www.anasoft.co.uk/worstcase.htm Having to press a menu/function key just to move a component, is just insane.... -- Kevin Aylward http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
Reply by ●March 13, 20172017-03-13
wrote in message news:4t2ccc969i3l4h4o36f52hsaa1saj63du7@4ax.com... On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:58:33 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:46:37 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:20:41 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>>>>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >>>>> >>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >>>>><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>>>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> >>>>>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the >>>>>>> UI >>>>>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure >>>>>>> torture. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs >>>>>>> designed >>>>>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for >>>>>>>those >>>>>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>>>>> >>>>>>Pardon? >>>>> >>>>>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>>>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >>>>> >>>>>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >>>>> >>>>>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>>>>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply >>>>>impossible to >>>>>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious >>>>>"goodwill". >>>>> >>>>>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take >>>>>their >>>>>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because >>>>>the >>>>>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to >>>>>enter. >>>>>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable >>>>>motives, >>>>>that convince investors and shareholders. >>>>> >>>>>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>>>>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. >>>> >>>>I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >>>>its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >>>>(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >>>>their prices. >>> >>>We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us >>>about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me >>>that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has >>>probably sold gigabucks of parts so far. >>> >>>Some of their parts are good deals. Not gumdrop opamps or regulators, >>>but things like fast ADCs and multi-channel serial DACs. >>> >>>We've used thousands of their LTM micro-brick switchers. Nice quiet >>>little things. >> >>Way too expensive. When we can buy SMPS regulator chips for well less >>than $.50 (and add another $.20 for passives), these sorts of things >>don't hold the interest much. > >"Expensive" depends on the context. They are small, convenient, and as >I noted, very quiet. Two inches away from a 250 MHz, 12 bit ADC, I >don't want a lot of switching spikes in my ground plane.>You've just stated my point about LTSpice, and LT in general. Great >stuff, if you're making tens or hundreds a month. Not so great if >you're making thousands or hundreds of thousands. TI doesn't give >much support for people making tens or hundreds but...>It's a matter of market. LTSpice allows LT to go after the high >margin business, where they want to play.This claim makes no sense. LTSpice is *only* a *simulation* program. A simulation program can't "allow" them to sell parts. LTSpice is, essentially, an advertising tool. It simply puts the name LT on the desktop. Sure, this has value, but purchasing departments don't buy parts based on simulating LT chips on a computer, its, does the part meet the performance required, at a cost I am willing to be, with an acceptable lead time . -- Kevin Aylward http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
Reply by ●March 13, 20172017-03-13
"John Larkin" wrote in message news:covbcc1ephgugsdnj76dli254efaacpqso@4ax.com... On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:42:31 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>news:pi2bcc1mmrc1027fui30jm0p0rr39n4nh8@4ax.com... >> >>On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>"M Philbrook" wrote in message >>>news:MPG.332f37eeea23385398a015@news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>>In article <o9veuf$50c$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>> >>>> Every time I want to do something with LTspice I have to fight the UI >>>> something wicked. Doing anything relating to commands is pure torture. >>>> >>>>> I eventually figured out how to do what I wanted, but it is amazing >>>>> how >>>>> poor not only the UI is, but the documentation. I have learned >>>>> programming languages by reading the manuals. But I can't decipher >>>>> the >>>>> .MEAS statement in LTspice along with many other features. >>> >>>> Please be advised, LTspice and those like it are real programs designed >>>>for serious users in mind looking for real productivity tools for those >>>>that are PRODUCTIVE. >>> >>>Pardon? >> >>>I suspect that part of the motivation and value of the Analog Devices >>>purchase of LTC was LT Spice; a couple of billion dollars worth maybe. >> >>I have to say, no way josa, and ROTFLMAO. :-) >> >>John. Not a chance in a billion that LTSpice has a business worth even >>remotely near that value. Its a freebe, so it would be simply impossible >>to >>justify it as shareholder value as anything more than dubious "goodwill". >> >>*The* fundamental reason companies buy other companies, is to take their >>*existing customers*, via the *products* that they *sell*. Its because the >>other company is eating into their markets or markets they want to enter. >>Its that simple. It has to be hard profit and loss quantifiable motives, >>that convince investors and shareholders. >> >>I propose that LTSpice played no part whatsoever in Analog Devices >>decision. Lets see if Mike pops up to contradict me. > >>I would suggest that LTSpice gets LT repsonisble for a huge share of >>its high margin business. It's the way they support smaller companies >>(where the margins are higher). There is no other way to justify >>their prices.>We had a team of LTC folks visit us last Wednesday, partly to tell us >about the expected effects of the ADI acquisition. They agreed with me >that LT Spice is going to be important to ADI, and that LT Spice has >probably sold gigabucks of parts so far.And just what would you expect them to say about LTSpice? LTSpice, is essentially, advertising. Its not easy to work out the effect of advertisement on profits, however, one can try different campaigns over time to see if there is any correlation. Without supplying LTSpice for a time, then cutting it off over several periods, I don't see how its possible to validly quantify any value to it all, although I agree that LTSPice has some value. "probably sold gigabucks of parts", is just a fantasy claim. I do remember when Bruce Springteen's "Born In The USA" album came out, it apparently boosted Levi's jean sales -- Kevin Aylward http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
