PSoC or FPGA?

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:27:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:24:48 -0500) it happened
>"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in
><7tbio69cbrq529nckd4bqtnrnjh7re4oia@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:14:37 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Mar 2011 18:13:19 -0500) it happened
>>>izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>>>Wow!  You got that right.  I don't WRITE CODE,
>>>
>>>Yea, that was clear already.
>>>
>>I'm hardware engineer.  Software is for dweebs.
>
>Then why do you use it so much with your simulators?
>:-)

_With_ my(?) simulators?  Someone has to do the shit work.  Even DimBulb is
employed, evidently.

"Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Warren" <ve3wwg@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:Xns9EB165763DBEAWarrensBlatherings@81.169.183.62...
>> I for one, would not pay a developer
>> to avoid debuggers so that they can spend time cooking up
>> personalized macros and manually coding printf's all over the
>> place. That's a poor use of a developer's time.
>
>Yeah, these days they instead spend time cooking up macros and plug-ins for 
>the debugger so that it can "sanely" display various objects or structures. 
>:-)
>
>> Ada is very fussy about
>> what gets compiled which saves debugging time (but I realize
>> this is a language religious thing and that sometimes the
>> language is dictated).
>
>The other thing is that there really is a very broad range of programmer skill 
>sets/proficiencies out there: My opinion is that, while all programmers make 
>mistakes, the kind of bugs that very strong typing and other rigors that Ada 
>imposes tend to prevent errors that a *certain subset* of programmers don't 
>make anyway -- or at least only make on an incredibly rare occasion --, and 
>instead *for them* it just decreases their average productivity a bit.

I wish Ada where available for ARM. I really love to try it for a
microcontroller project. If I'm right its like programming with the
cruise control on. 

If you concentrate on driving a car, you can keep your speed constant.
But why bother if you can have cruise control? Not having to think
about pitfalls is much more efficient than knowing how to avoid them.

>My recollection is that Steve Wozniak wrote out all of the Apple I's BASIC in 
>assembly language and then manually "assembled" it, still on paper, into 
>op-codes.  He did all of his debugging "on paper," and the first time he 
>entered it into the actual CPU... it worked.

I know that kind of code. Try to add something new later. 

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:23:00 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Warren" <ve3wwg@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:Xns9EB165763DBEAWarrensBlatherings@81.169.183.62...
>> I for one, would not pay a developer
>> to avoid debuggers so that they can spend time cooking up
>> personalized macros and manually coding printf's all over the
>> place. That's a poor use of a developer's time.
>
>Yeah, these days they instead spend time cooking up macros and plug-ins for 
>the debugger so that it can "sanely" display various objects or structures. 
>:-)
>
>> Ada is very fussy about
>> what gets compiled which saves debugging time (but I realize
>> this is a language religious thing and that sometimes the
>> language is dictated).
>
>The other thing is that there really is a very broad range of programmer skill 
>sets/proficiencies out there: My opinion is that, while all programmers make 
>mistakes, the kind of bugs that very strong typing and other rigors that Ada 
>imposes tend to prevent errors that a *certain subset* of programmers don't 
>make anyway -- or at least only make on an incredibly rare occasion --, and 
>instead *for them* it just decreases their average productivity a bit.

Programmers never make buffer overrun errors?  Nah, Windows has none of
them...

>Overall it is your programmer's productivity that counts, as measured by, "how 
>long did it take them to get this chunk of code to work in a bug-free 
>manner?" -- regardless of what tools they choose (or are made) to use.  My 
>opinion is that software development is one of the few fields where the answer 
>to this question varies far more than in many other fields; a 5:1 ratio is 
>readily seen -- yet hiring the most productive programmers doesn't cost nearly 
>5x what hiring the least productive ones does.

It's also hard to tell the difference.

>My recollection is that Steve Wozniak wrote out all of the Apple I's BASIC in 
>assembly language and then manually "assembled" it, still on paper, into 
>op-codes.  He did all of his debugging "on paper," and the first time he 
>entered it into the actual CPU... it worked.

People can *read* S/370 core dumps.  Manual assembly on many antique
processors isn't difficult.  Not all processors are the mess that is x86.

>Many people couldn't pull off that feat with Ada, C++, Python or any other 
>language out there. :-)

Not sure how to parse that challenge.  Manual assembly of a HLL? ;-)

>On the other hand... Woz and one other guy were off trying to finish DOS 1.0 
>before some trade show (probably Comdex), hopped onto a plane the day before, 
>figuring that they'd had it done in a couple of hours after they arrived at 
>their hotel.  Instead they were programming all through the night, finishing 
>just a couple of hours before the show was set to open... at which point Woz 
>figured he'd make "one last test" of the read/write sector routines before 
>getting some shuteye... and inadvertently did so using the disc he was using 
>to store DOS itself rather than their test disc, thereby wiping out all the 
>progress they'd make that past night.
>
>Everyone's human? :-)

Especially the night before a trade show.  ;-)

>(The story then continues that he did go to sleep, woke up that afternoon, and 
>fixed everything still that same day -- having remembered most of the details 
>of what had been done --, so they only lost the one opening day of the trade 
>show without a demonstrably working DOS.  Excellent recovery there, at least.)

Hi,

Does anybody know of a laptop PC that has a BIOS that supports
autostart after a power fail? Like, if the AC power fails, and the
batteries die, and then power comes back up, I need it to power up and
boot Windows, unattended. Many desktop PCs have this as a bios option.

If you have one, I might buy it.

If I can't do this in a laptop, I guess I'll have to go to one of
those little cube things, with a Mini-ITX motherboard or whatever.
Plus external monitor and keyboard. And I'd have to find one of them
with the restart BIOS option. Or possibly hot-wire the power supply to
be always on.

John

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:26:13 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>Does anybody know of a laptop PC that has a BIOS that supports
>autostart after a power fail? Like, if the AC power fails, and the
>batteries die, and then power comes back up, I need it to power up and
>boot Windows, unattended. Many desktop PCs have this as a bios option.
>
>If you have one, I might buy it.
>
>If I can't do this in a laptop, I guess I'll have to go to one of
>those little cube things, with a Mini-ITX motherboard or whatever.
>Plus external monitor and keyboard. And I'd have to find one of them
>with the restart BIOS option. Or possibly hot-wire the power supply to
>be always on.

I cannot speak for modern BIOS/UEFI systems.  It's gotten
nuts.  But if they still support the old methods, BIOS had
included a power-reset vector that could be modified.  Info
was stored in the clock chip, which had a tiny amount of
unused battery-backed RAM in it.  When the BIOS restarts, it
first looks in that location to see what to do.  It was used
primarily for the 80286, because the 80286 couldn't exit
protected mode without a complete hardware reset to the chip.
This allowed programs needing access to protected mode memory
addresses to go into protected mode, access/move stuff
around, then reset and go back into real mode and run some
more.  Slow, but transparent to the user.  If that is still
supported and if all of the system memory can be retained
during a power fail/restart, it might be possible to arrange
things to survive it and come right back.

Jon

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:26:13 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Does anybody know of a laptop PC that has a BIOS that supports
>autostart after a power fail? Like, if the AC power fails, and the
>batteries die, and then power comes back up, I need it to power up and
>boot Windows, unattended. Many desktop PCs have this as a bios option.

  Use some common sense, idiot.

  YTou are not going to find a battery powered device that has that as a
"feature" because it would NOT be.
>
>If you have one, I might buy it.

  If you have a brain that actually functions, you might get recognized
as a man before you die.

>If I can't do this in a laptop, I guess I'll have to go to one of
>those little cube things, with a Mini-ITX motherboard or whatever.

  There are devices that do what you need without buying a computer, ITX
or otherwise.

 This one is real good...

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10607

 Another nice one...

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10534


And the best one, that is run ready...  The Pogoplug.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10751


  You would not be disappointed with the Acer Revo.  It has 14 USB ports,
puts out via both HDMI and VGA port.

>Plus external monitor and keyboard.

  It comes with a mouse and keyboard.  The Bios has restart after power
fail settings.

> And I'd have to find one of them
>with the restart BIOS option. Or possibly hot-wire the power supply to
>be always on.

The Revo is run ready. An ITX solution requires that you put it together.

  The biggest problem with the ITX form factor is the LACK (complete
lack) of power supply development that is worthy.  I found ONE 300W unit
from RaidMax, and it barley does the job. The ITX form factor is sadly in
neglect by the industry.  Zotac makes the best units. Mine has dual WLAN,
and an eSATA port.  It is way better than the others and they cost
several tens of dollars more, if not twenties.

  $200

  Change the RAM to 4GB, another $100.


  Change the HD to a 7200 rpm/flash hybrid drive.  another $100.

  That makes it able to do DB level video streams.  You could likely with
the base unit.

  It pains me to give you valid, proper responses considering how much of
a complete asshole you are in this group.

  You can rest assured that it is valid info, however.  Just like the cat
that bit me, which I, in turn, did not respond in kind.

  The cat should consider itself lucky.  As should you.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:48:43 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
wrote:
>I wish Ada where available for ARM. 

Why do you think it's not? GNU compiler chain has a full blown Ada95
front-end and an ARM back-end.
-- 
Muzaffer Kal

DSPIA INC.
ASIC/FPGA Design Services

http://www.dspia.com

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:23:29 -0700, TheGlimmerMan
<justaglimmer@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:26:13 -0700, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anybody know of a laptop PC that has a BIOS that supports
>>autostart after a power fail? Like, if the AC power fails, and the
>>batteries die, and then power comes back up, I need it to power up and
>>boot Windows, unattended. Many desktop PCs have this as a bios option.
>
>  Use some common sense, idiot.
>
>  YTou are not going to find a battery powered device that has that as a
>"feature" because it would NOT be.


Since you are AlwaysWrong, I'm optimistic I can find what I want.



>>
>>If you have one, I might buy it.
>
>  If you have a brain that actually functions, you might get recognized
>as a man before you die.
>
>>If I can't do this in a laptop, I guess I'll have to go to one of
>>those little cube things, with a Mini-ITX motherboard or whatever.
>
>  There are devices that do what you need without buying a computer, ITX
>or otherwise.
>
> This one is real good...
>
>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10607
>
> Another nice one...
>
>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10534
>
>
>And the best one, that is run ready...  The Pogoplug.
>
>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10751

Ooh, pink! That's adorable.


But as I noted, I want to run XP.

John

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:52:27 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:23:29 -0700, TheGlimmerMan
><justaglimmer@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:26:13 -0700, John Larkin
>><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Does anybody know of a laptop PC that has a BIOS that supports
>>>autostart after a power fail? Like, if the AC power fails, and the
>>>batteries die, and then power comes back up, I need it to power up and
>>>boot Windows, unattended. Many desktop PCs have this as a bios option.
>>
>>  Use some common sense, idiot.
>>
>>  YTou are not going to find a battery powered device that has that as a
>>"feature" because it would NOT be.
>
>
>Since you are AlwaysWrong, I'm optimistic I can find what I want.

  Look in the mirror much?

>>>
>>>If you have one, I might buy it.
>>
>>  If you have a brain that actually functions, you might get recognized
>>as a man before you die.
>>
>>>If I can't do this in a laptop, I guess I'll have to go to one of
>>>those little cube things, with a Mini-ITX motherboard or whatever.
>>
>>  There are devices that do what you need without buying a computer, ITX
>>or otherwise.
>>
>> This one is real good...
>>
>>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10607
>>
>> Another nice one...
>>
>>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10534
>>
>>
>>And the best one, that is run ready...  The Pogoplug.
>>
>>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10751
>
>Ooh, pink! That's adorable.
>
>
>But as I noted, I want to run XP.

  Nice snippage of the remainder of the post, dimwit.  The computer I
describes comes with XP, dumbfuck.

  You obviously do not know much about Linux.  It also runs XP.

  And no, Johnny, I am not now wrong, nor have I "always" been so in the
past.  You just got a few "wrongo" points yourself, dumbfuck.

  Now man up and admit it.  Oh...  that's right...  I have to remember
how your affliction was perfectly described not long ago.  You cannot
progress from criticism.  You are stuck as a dumb 6th grader mentality
ditz.  The funny part is that you do not know just how transparent you
are.

On Mar 23, 4:26=A0pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anybody know of a laptop PC that has a BIOS that supports
> autostart after a power fail? Like, if the AC power fails, and the
> batteries die, and then power comes back up, I need it to power up and
> boot Windows, unattended. Many desktop PCs have this as a bios option.
>
> If you have one, I might buy it.
>
> If I can't do this in a laptop, I guess I'll have to go to one of
> those little cube things, with a Mini-ITX motherboard or whatever.
> Plus external monitor and keyboard. And I'd have to find one of them
> with the restart BIOS option. Or possibly hot-wire the power supply to
> be always on.
>
> John

On the surface, the laptop looks like a simpler solution, but a mini-
itx is a vastly easier box to maintain. Fixing laptops is a pain.

My mini-itx performs like you want, but it seems like too complicated
a solution for your task. The PC is set up to be used as an "car PC".
That is, it can run off of unregulated DC. The supply is sophisticated
enough that it sends a start pulse to the mobo, just like somebody hit
a start button.

http://www.mitxpc.com/
I would call these people and explain what you want. I've been to the
facility and they seem to know what they are doing.

I haven't done this, but it seems like you could make this PC use a
large gel cell for battery backup. Just thinking out loud here, you
drive the PC with a voltage higher than a charging gel cell. Use
diodes to do the power switchover.

http://www.mitxpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3DPSDCDCM2ATX-HV
Download the manual on this power supply,
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-M2-ATX-HV/PWR-M2-ATX-HV-manual.pdf

Note this line:
If J6 is connected to the motherboard, M2-ATX-HV will also send a
gratuitous =93ON pulse=94 to the motherboard right after power is first
applied.

When I run this as a desktop, I don't have any start switch. I just
apply power and it boots. My mobo is a dual core Atom with nvidia ion,
probably overkill for what you need. The folk at mitxpc will probably
know which mobo will boot like you need.