The arsehole Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> persisting in being an Off-topic troll... -- Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:> Path: not-for-mail > From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: frozen Teslas > Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 15:33:06 +1100 > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 30 > Message-ID: <uo7laa$1rjur$1@dont-email.me> > References: <ntcdqitb6p6h0gnip4c69e0crcld3rlseu@4ax.com> > <uo6p32$1jo3b$1@dont-email.me> <658eqip3g64jlik600kj8afq73laguma3c@4ax.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Injection-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 04:33:14 -0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b34ce52a9b0352ccd4fd6896b02a0fca"; > logging-data="1953755"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18qvc1/OPvoyPQjhUOmUiK7Vtl2Mkz67vw=" > User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird > Cancel-Lock: sha1:hYVq/Eu/q91W4kwvPZinOoNb0PA= > In-Reply-To: <658eqip3g64jlik600kj8afq73laguma3c@4ax.com> > Content-Language: en-US > X-Received-Bytes: 2291
frozen Teslas
Started by ●January 16, 2024
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
The idiot legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> persisting in being an Off-topic troll... -- legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:> Path: not-for-mail > From: legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: frozen Teslas > Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:36:51 -0500 > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 41 > Message-ID: <b2ofqi90q7bcp8mtbquuq3334v3o9rti4u@4ax.com> > References: <ntcdqitb6p6h0gnip4c69e0crcld3rlseu@4ax.com> <uo6p32$1jo3b$1@dont-email.me> <658eqip3g64jlik600kj8afq73laguma3c@4ax.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="773c2e3d3e1497376982210a16d21c53"; > logging-data="2153107"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19q0gmQ0NmUZgRB1NPdkmMQ" > Cancel-Lock: sha1:WQ3bnuI9Mq2A0A5gnkkcU/x0ZGU= > X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 > X-Received-Bytes: 2735
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:36:51 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:>On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:44:19 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >wrote: > >>On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid >><martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: >> >>>John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r >>>> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences. >>> >>>Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues. >>> >>>Cheers >> >>It has a gasoline engine! >> >>I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long >>does it take? How much battery energy does it use? >> >>It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you >>can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy >>available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting, >>or to drive two blocks to the charging station.) > >Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with >plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather. >This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't >prevent cranking and startup. > >Battery blankets are also a real thing. > >They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac >distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages, >located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles >out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet. > >Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station, >and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature >to a normal operating range.How long does that take?>Have to assume low temperature operation >is included in the system's state machine. > >RLThis sort of news will not be good for sales: https://dnyuz.com/2024/01/17/electric-car-owners-confront-a-harsh-foe-cold-weather/
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
The arsehole John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll... -- John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:> Path: not-for-mail > NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 14:55:01 +0000 > From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: frozen Teslas > Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 06:53:56 -0800 > Organization: Highland Tech > Reply-To: xx@yy.com > Message-ID: <jbqfqi54dto2q27emdpgo31u7okklnm0ef@4ax.com> > References: <ntcdqitb6p6h0gnip4c69e0crcld3rlseu@4ax.com> <uo6p32$1jo3b$1@dont-email.me> <658eqip3g64jlik600kj8afq73laguma3c@4ax.com> <b2ofqi90q7bcp8mtbquuq3334v3o9rti4u@4ax.com> > X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Lines: 53 > X-Trace: sv3-ZoS2gfmYJzcfY9Bs83LZvPg04eMmIkLsPceKH5ch9UZowFHJikKbbnjaqMUQfqbLQNsT4bofcXdSOv1!+nG1XZ251F10YTAyAH/JazATD0k2p8OQjOaTOGOFHk4XVrjmO88CFHdymqU4cdAB0qwVs6znGHxX!xBMG2g== > X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html > X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly > X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 > Bytes: 3260 > X-Received-Bytes: 3460
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:53:51 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook > > It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets > below 0F. > > Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal > consequences.That's a bunch of nonsense encouraged by the moronic press. Those big battery banks can be permanently damaged by excess temperature change rate with time. As you can imagine, they get quite warm with fast charging. The onboard BMS detects this and limits the charge current to keep the rate of temperature rise within safe limits. That's why the numbskulls, with frozen solid batteries, are backing up at the charging stations, there is in effect no fast charging taking place, greatly reducing throughput. The Tesla's have a battery preconditioning feature for just this situation. It must be activated, by pushing a button, at least 30 minutes before charging, the time it takes to drive to the charging station and wait in line for a spot ... People who have a garage with overnight trickle charge, or even just a somewhat heated garage, will not have this problem.
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:05:29 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:53:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook >> >> It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets >> below 0F. >> >> Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal >> consequences. > >That's a bunch of nonsense encouraged by the moronic press. Those big battery banks can be permanently damaged by excess temperature change rate with time. As you can imagine, they get quite warm with fast charging. The onboard BMS detects this and limits the charge current to keep the rate of temperature rise within safe limits. That's why the numbskulls, with frozen solid batteries, are backing up at the charging stations, there is in effect no fast charging taking place, greatly reducing throughput. The Tesla's have a battery preconditioning feature for just this situation. It must be activated, by pushing a button, at least 30 minutes before charging, the time it takes to drive to the charging station and wait in line for a spot ... People who have a garage with overnight trickle charge, or even just a somewhat heated garage, will not have this problem.As long as it never leaves the cozy garage, it will be fine. What kind of EV do you have?
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 9:36:14 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:> On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:44:19 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> > wrote: > >On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid > ><martin...@verison.net> wrote: > > > >>John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r > >>> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences. > >> > >>Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues. > >> > >>Cheers > > > >It has a gasoline engine! > > > >I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long > >does it take? How much battery energy does it use? > > > >It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you > >can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy > >available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting, > >or to drive two blocks to the charging station.) > Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with > plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather. > This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't > prevent cranking and startup. > > Battery blankets are also a real thing. > > They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac > distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages, > located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles > out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet. > > Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station, > and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature > to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation > is included in the system's state machine.It can precondition with the stored battery energy, doesn't need to be at the charging station. The fools are not supposed to drain the batteries below 20% C, or something, anyway, just something else for the airheads to ignore. Those cold weather ICE heaters are for the crankcase oil, they're just dumb engine block heaters. The batteries will just have to tough it out on their own. Speaking of which, a recent study has determined that excessive temperature in heated car seats, which some people prefer apparently, causes a decline in male fertility.> > RL
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:05:29 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:53:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: > >> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook > >> > >> It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets > >> below 0F. > >> > >> Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal > >> consequences. > > > >That's a bunch of nonsense encouraged by the moronic press. Those big battery banks can be permanently damaged by excess temperature change rate with time. As you can imagine, they get quite warm with fast charging. The onboard BMS detects this and limits the charge current to keep the rate of temperature rise within safe limits. That's why the numbskulls, with frozen solid batteries, are backing up at the charging stations, there is in effect no fast charging taking place, greatly reducing throughput. The Tesla's have a battery preconditioning feature for just this situation. It must be activated, by pushing a button, at least 30 minutes before charging, the time it takes to drive to the charging station and wait in line for a spot ... People who have a garage with overnight trickle charge, or even just a somewhat heated garage, will not have this problem. > As long as it never leaves the cozy garage, it will be fine. > > What kind of EV do you have?My EV is a 2.2L runs on 89 octane fuel. I'll get an EV when 'they' give me one, not a day sooner. I maybe drive it once a month, fill the tank maybe once a year, so it's not like it's destroying the environment causing death and damnation for the whole world. Sta-Bil and an inexpensive battery maintainer make all this work quite well.
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On 1/16/2024 7:44 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid > <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: > >> John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r >>> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences. >> >> Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues. >> >> Cheers > > It has a gasoline engine!AFAIK they all have air-cooled packs, so even on the Prius Prime the engine can't help bring the pack up to temp directly. But the power electronics are liquid cooled I believe. The Volt's three loops work pretty well to pre-condition when not plugged in, below about 25 F the engine comes on and burns a couple thimbles of gas to warm everything up over a few minutes. Some percentage of that energy gets sent to the battery so you're wasting about a thimble all told, and probably win on the energy balance vs driving off with the internal resistance of a battery at ambient. But I've done that too in cold weather and I think in 6 years the car only actively bitched at me about it once, when it was about -15, and acceleration was sluggish for about a minute. Very trouble-free car overall, I'll probably run it another couple years or to 100k and then let someone else have some fun with it, but I will be sad to let it go. The Ioniq 6 is a very stylish EV, reminds me of Saab designs. It is true that a lot of EVs are aggressively ugly cars.> I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long > does it take? How much battery energy does it use? > > It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you > can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy > available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting, > or to drive two blocks to the charging station.) >A battery probably still has about 5-10% charge when it's displaying 0 miles range to the user. I suppose I could check mine the next time it's flat but I've never been curious enough about it to bother.. I don't know any EV that displays actual SoC directly to the user without digging into OBDII, it's a guess-o-meter based on a some kind of average of past experience.
Reply by ●January 17, 20242024-01-17
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:> Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with > plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather. > This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't > prevent cranking and startup.Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater. I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago). A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet made available to the parked car would turn off when the meter expired. [Larger commercial vehicles, I'm told, were run continuously in the colder months -- fuel being cheaper than trying to start overly thickened oil]> Battery blankets are also a real thing. > > They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac > distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages, > located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles > out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.Parking meters for folks who have to park at the curb. I would keep mine plugged in even when garaged! (cold weather makes the engine load appear larger and the battery capacity smaller... why not give the car a break?)> Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station, > and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature > to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation > is included in the system's state machine.Not unlike keeping your (starting) battery in the house... I'll be curious to see how the heat affects battery life. Here, starting batteries are rarely good for more than 3 years (if you are wise, you replace yours *at* three years before you find yourself stranded!) None of the BEV owners I've known have kept their vehicles for more than 2 years so no real data points to consult.
