frozen Teslas

The arsehole Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: frozen Teslas
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700
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The arsehole John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:

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> Subject: Re: frozen Teslas
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:13:22 -0800
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
>> Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
>> plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
>> This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
>> prevent cranking and startup.
>
>Block heaters are inexpensive (to  purchase) and simple to
>install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
>I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
>driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
>
>A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
>always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
>made available to the parked car would turn off when the
>meter expired.

Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will 
provide sockets or lose clients.

>
>[Larger commercial vehicles, I'm told, were run continuously
>in the colder months -- fuel being cheaper than trying to start
>overly thickened oil]

That's a diesel thing, mostly, and you're talking about 
reefer traction vehicles in unserviced layby areas. It's not 
cost, so much as warm-up times and cab use. Some can be 
time and temperature controlled for intermittent running.
With commuter vehicles, I guess diesel owners just do 
what experience (or the manual) tells them they can get 
away with.

>
>> Battery blankets are also a real thing.
>> 
>> They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac
>> distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
>> located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
>> out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
>
>Parking meters for folks who have to park at the curb.
>I would keep mine plugged in even when garaged!

Home garages or car ports usually have an easily accessed socketry, 
or extension cords. Owners with fixed schedules will put this 
on a timer to save $.

RV travellers in the summer are gratified to find available 
power points - and disapointed to find they're blowing lower 
capacity breakers when trying to use these.

>(cold weather makes the engine load appear larger
>and the battery capacity smaller... why not give the
>car a break?)
>
>> Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
>> and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
>> to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation
>> is included in the system's state machine.
>
>Not unlike keeping your (starting) battery in the house...
>
>I'll be curious to see how the heat affects battery life.
>Here, starting batteries are rarely good for more than 3 years
>(if you are wise, you replace yours *at* three years before
>you find yourself stranded!)
>
>None of the BEV owners I've known have kept their vehicles for more
>than 2 years so no real data points to consult.

It's a seller's market ($$), as far as EV's go, but you can navigate 
the Trans-Canada highway with one, now, if you have to.

Don't know why I'm involved in this discussion. I don't drive.
Everyone else in the family does. Their work either builds or 
services vehicles. In my home town, if it doesn't have wheels, 
they're not interested. Have never been able to earn a living 
there. (Gone broke twice, trying.)

RL

On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 09:35:59 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
>>> Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
>>> plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
>>> This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
>>> prevent cranking and startup.
>>
>>Block heaters are inexpensive (to  purchase) and simple to
>>install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
>>I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
>>driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
>>
>>A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
>>always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
>>made available to the parked car would turn off when the
>>meter expired.
>
>Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will 
>provide sockets or lose clients.

What's an "outdoor day lot"? We don't have them here.

On 1/18/2024 7:35 AM, legg wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
>>> Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
>>> plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
>>> This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
>>> prevent cranking and startup.
>>
>> Block heaters are inexpensive (to  purchase) and simple to
>> install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
>> I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
>> driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
>>
>> A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
>> always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
>> made available to the parked car would turn off when the
>> meter expired.
> 
> Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
> provide sockets or lose clients.

Lots, here, are unattended.  Like a "drive-in" theater but with
meters instead of speakers.

>> [Larger commercial vehicles, I'm told, were run continuously
>> in the colder months -- fuel being cheaper than trying to start
>> overly thickened oil]
> 
> That's a diesel thing, mostly, and you're talking about
> reefer traction vehicles in unserviced layby areas. It's not
> cost, so much as warm-up times and cab use. Some can be
> time and temperature controlled for intermittent running.

Dunno.  IIRC, he worked with industrial/construction
equipment, mostly.  (something about power plants is hiding
in my memories of him)  But, it's been 30+ years since I
thought about block heaters (or snow, for that matter!)

> With commuter vehicles, I guess diesel owners just do
> what experience (or the manual) tells them they can get
> away with.
> 
>>> Battery blankets are also a real thing.
>>>
>>> They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac
>>> distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
>>> located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
>>> out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
>>
>> Parking meters for folks who have to park at the curb.
>> I would keep mine plugged in even when garaged!
> 
> Home garages or car ports usually have an easily accessed socketry,
> or extension cords. Owners with fixed schedules will put this
> on a timer to save $.

Most (older) garages, here, will have a single, uncommitted GFCI outlet.
Friends with plug-in hybrids have often had to hire an electrician
to make one available for their vehicle (as that single outlet
likely already is spoken for!)

> RV travellers in the summer are gratified to find available
> power points - and disapointed to find they're blowing lower
> capacity breakers when trying to use these.

Ha!  Too funny!  What does a legitimate user do if he encounters
a tripped breaker?  Is there any indication on the outlet that
it *has* power available?  Or, do you drive up and then realize
why THIS parking space was "empty"?!

>> (cold weather makes the engine load appear larger
>> and the battery capacity smaller... why not give the
>> car a break?)
>>
>>> Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
>>> and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
>>> to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation
>>> is included in the system's state machine.
>>
>> Not unlike keeping your (starting) battery in the house...
>>
>> I'll be curious to see how the heat affects battery life.
>> Here, starting batteries are rarely good for more than 3 years
>> (if you are wise, you replace yours *at* three years before
>> you find yourself stranded!)
>>
>> None of the BEV owners I've known have kept their vehicles for more
>> than 2 years so no real data points to consult.
> 
> It's a seller's market ($$), as far as EV's go, but you can navigate
> the Trans-Canada highway with one, now, if you have to.

In order to be a seller, you will also end up as a *buyer*.

> Don't know why I'm involved in this discussion. I don't drive.

I haven't "commuted" in more than 30 years.  I used to put 1500
miles/year on my vehicle going to/from my volunteer activities.
But, realized maintaining a car JUST so I could give away my
time was silly!  Now, I do those things from the comfort and
convenience of my own home.

But, we (jointly) still manage to drive about 100 miles/wk.
Not hard when it's a mile to the nearest "anything" and
closer to 10 miles for a shopping trip.

[Public transportation, here, is laughable and who would
want to *hire* someone to drive them to the grocery store?]

> Everyone else in the family does. Their work either builds or
> services vehicles. In my home town, if it doesn't have wheels,
> they're not interested. Have never been able to earn a living
> there. (Gone broke twice, trying.)

I've not lived "home" since before college.  I could probably
economically live their (as most of my work has been remote) but
the idea of being where I grew up seems so... "limiting".

It's always amusing to see how *small* things were, in
hindsight!  :-/

The arsehole Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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The arsehole Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:

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> From: Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net>
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> Subject: Re: frozen Teslas
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 17:03:47 -0500 (EST)
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The idiot legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

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> From: legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>
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> Subject: Re: frozen Teslas
> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 09:35:59 -0500
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The arsehole John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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> Subject: Re: frozen Teslas
> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 07:49:45 -0800
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The arsehole Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: frozen Teslas
> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 11:40:58 -0700
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 123
> Message-ID: <uobrc1$2n2dv$2@dont-email.me>
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