Circuit Breaker 22AIC

I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit.  Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.  Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker?  Existing one might be 10AIC.

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 3:28:37 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
> I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.

I think you mean 10KAIC, which is not directly related to trip current as much as breaker contact construction. Plug the smallest load, laptop (?), into a different less loaded circuit via extension cord. Or wire a new circuit, which doesn't have to be all the way to the panel, it can be a tap off an existing circuit in the proximity.

On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
> I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit.  Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.  Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker?  Existing one might be 10AIC.

You've not indicated where you are located.

In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).

Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit
at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.

OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.

On 9/24/2023 2:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
>> I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit.  Fine most of the 
>> time until I use the microwave.  Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit 
>> breaker?  Existing one might be 10AIC.
> 
> You've not indicated where you are located.
> 
> In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
> In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
> 2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
> 
> Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit
> at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.

It goes without saying that the fridge should always have a dedicated
(i.e., "single outlet") circuit.

> OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
> 

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote: 
> > I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
> You've not indicated where you are located. 
> 
> In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit. 
> In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had 
> 2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit). 
> 
> Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit 
> at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit. 
> 
> OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.

The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC.  I guess I don't really know what they mean.  It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.

mandag den 25. september 2023 kl. 00.24.38 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:
> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: 
> > On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote: 
> > > I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC. 
> > You've not indicated where you are located. 
> > 
> > In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit. 
> > In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had 
> > 2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit). 
> > 
> > Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit 
> > at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit. 
> > 
> > OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
> The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.

AIC is Ampere Interrupting Capacity, so it is probably 10kAIC and 22kAIC. 

On 9/24/2023 3:24 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
>>> I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
>> You've not indicated where you are located.
>>
>> In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
>> In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
>> 2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
>>
>> Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit
>> at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
>>
>> OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
> 
> The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC.  I guess I don't really know what they mean.  It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.

The "interrupting" current rating indicates the INSTANTANEOUS current level
at which the breaker is determined not to fail, catastrophically.

Recall, these are electroMECHANICAL devices so there are finite reaction
times involved.  During those times, a breaker may have to pass the full
short-circuit rating of the panel into it's shorted output.  A breaker
failing while doing that is A Bad Thing.

So, you select breakers with higher interrupting current levels
than those of the panel as the panel isn't guaranteed to "behave"
at levels above its rating.  22kAIC is a common panel/load center
rating.

One typically wants the fridge on a separate circuit as it won't be a
"victim" of a short circuit caused by something else.  You'd be
annoyed if the toaster blew a breaker and your food spoiled...
(if the refrigerator is the sole device, then worrying about
food spoilage while the refrigerator is the culprit is sort of
implied)

Microwaves (on counter circuits) tend to cause problems because
they are used "on demand"... you don't think twice about pressing
the START button, regardless of what other appliances you may
have on that circuit.  Nuisance trips then become a problem.

Putting it on its own circuit leaves plenty of headroom and
keeps other loads from eating into its resources.

[We have 5 or 6 circuits in our small kitchen -- not counting the
oven/stove.  We *never* blow breakers, even with electric wok,
toaster, frying pans, microwave, dishwasher, disposal, etc. all
operating simultaneously.  Kitchens are the energy hogs in most homes
so ensuring you have an adequate supply *there* is usually prudent]

You should also explore whether or not your branch circuit is GFCI
protected (common for countertops).  And, if so, verify that every
connection is tight and secure -- esp if your outlets were wired
"daisy chain".  A high-resistance connection can cause nuisance
trips (and outlets regularly see "motion" as plugs are inserted
and withdrawn -- esp if wired with back-stab terminals!)

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 3:59:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/24/2023 3:24 PM, Eddy Lee wrote: 
> > On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote: 
> >> On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote: 
> >>> I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC. 
> >> You've not indicated where you are located. 
> >> 
> >> In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit. 
> >> In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had 
> >> 2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit). 
> >> 
> >> Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit 
> >> at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit. 
> >> 
> >> OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here. 
> > 
> > The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.
> The "interrupting" current rating indicates the INSTANTANEOUS current level 
> at which the breaker is determined not to fail, catastrophically. 
> 
> Recall, these are electroMECHANICAL devices so there are finite reaction 
> times involved. During those times, a breaker may have to pass the full 
> short-circuit rating of the panel into it's shorted output. A breaker 
> failing while doing that is A Bad Thing. 
> 
> So, you select breakers with higher interrupting current levels 
> than those of the panel as the panel isn't guaranteed to "behave" 
> at levels above its rating. 22kAIC is a common panel/load center 
> rating. 
> 
> One typically wants the fridge on a separate circuit as it won't be a 
> "victim" of a short circuit caused by something else. You'd be 
> annoyed if the toaster blew a breaker and your food spoiled... 
> (if the refrigerator is the sole device, then worrying about 
> food spoilage while the refrigerator is the culprit is sort of 
> implied) 
> 
> Microwaves (on counter circuits) tend to cause problems because 
> they are used "on demand"... you don't think twice about pressing 
> the START button, regardless of what other appliances you may 
> have on that circuit. Nuisance trips then become a problem. 
> 
> Putting it on its own circuit leaves plenty of headroom and 
> keeps other loads from eating into its resources. 
> 
> [We have 5 or 6 circuits in our small kitchen -- not counting the 
> oven/stove. We *never* blow breakers, even with electric wok, 
> toaster, frying pans, microwave, dishwasher, disposal, etc. all 
> operating simultaneously. Kitchens are the energy hogs in most homes 
> so ensuring you have an adequate supply *there* is usually prudent] 
> ss
> You should also explore whether or not your branch circuit is GFCI 
> protected (common for countertops). And, if so, verify that every 
> connection is tight and secure -- esp if your outlets were wired 
> "daisy chain". A high-resistance connection can cause nuisance 
> trips (and outlets regularly see "motion" as plugs are inserted 
> and withdrawn -- esp if wired with back-stab terminals!)

There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel.  I guess they really cut corners in this apartment.  I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.

On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
> There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel.  I guess they really cut corners in this apartment.  I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.

The fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment
might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's
liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm
or loss as a result of your actions).

Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed*
(what ampacity circuit).

And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works".

Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there"
as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it
every few feet (unless you happen to have some old
wire on hand that predates your occupancy).

Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote: 
> > There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess they really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.
> The fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment 
> might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's 
> liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm 
> or loss as a result of your actions). 
> 
> Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed* 
> (what ampacity circuit). 
> 
> And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works". 
> 
> Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there" 
> as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it 
> every few feet (unless you happen to have some old 
> wire on hand that predates your occupancy). 
> 
> Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.

I'll try not to use the electric stove and microwave at the same time, although they are on separate breakers.  I'd have to unplug the fridge to use the microwave.