On 12/3/2022 3:00 PM, whit3rd wrote:> Yeah, but that's the spec for 100baseT also. > > As for quarter-mile, you'd be better off using a crash cart, > battery or generator and rack of electronics, that's off the grid.Wireless. Esp if you have approximately line-of-sight. They make some higher power devices that aren't as generic as APs. I have a pair of such from Ubiquity sitting in a milk crate in the garage for the past couple of years (always intending to install one on the roof but never quite getting around to it!)
10 mbit ethernet
Started by ●December 2, 2022
Reply by ●December 3, 20222022-12-03
Reply by ●December 3, 20222022-12-03
On 12/3/2022 5:33 PM, Don Y wrote:> On 12/3/2022 3:00 PM, whit3rd wrote: >> Yeah, but that's the spec for 100baseT also. >> >> As for quarter-mile, you'd be better off using a crash cart, >> battery or generator and rack of electronics, that's off the grid. > > Wireless. Esp if you have approximately line-of-sight. > They make some higher power devices that aren't as > generic as APs. I have a pair of such from Ubiquity > sitting in a milk crate in the garage for the past couple > of years (always intending to install one on the roof > but never quite getting around to it!)These are what I have: <https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-and-ltu/products/nanostation-ac> they'll do ~15km at half a Gbe rate. They have other devices that will do quite a bit more but 15km is already 40 times farther than 1/4mi.
Reply by ●December 3, 20222022-12-03
In article <tmgqff$3erkg$3@dont-email.me>, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:>These are what I have: > ><https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-and-ltu/products/nanostation-ac> > >they'll do ~15km at half a Gbe rate. They have other devices that will do >quite a bit more but 15km is already 40 times farther than 1/4mi.And with wireless (or fiber) you avoid the problems which can come from running long copper cables between buildings - in particular, ground surges. One of the gotchas with 10Base2 and 10Base5 is that a lightning strike anywhere in the area, or a fault current flowing to local ground in either building, can put some pretty nasty currents through your coax... causing Ethernet hubs to go PFFT and let all the magic blue smoke out.
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:19:12 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:> Am 03.12.22 um 17:06 schrieb John May: > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:06:41 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > >> Am 02.12.22 um 17:14 schrieb John Larkin: > >>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported > >>> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go > >>> away? > >> I've bought an interface box 10 MBit/s BNC <-> 1000 MBit/s > >> (my normal LAN) for my 89441A FFT analyzer. Maybe €29,99 > >> or so. Works wonderfully. Even if the RG58 cable is only > >> 10 cm long, it needs both 50 Ohm terminations. Probably > >> only a DC level thing. Source was Amazon. > >> > >> Gerhard > > > > Do you have a link? > Unfortunately not. I can see in the history that this was in 4/2014 and > it did cost €65. No longer available, however. > > If you happen to have a 89441A, you can open a BSD style socket > on it over Ethernet and write or read from there. It simply > accepts / answers GPIP interface text strings. > > I have written a program that makes many FFTs over n octaves, > collects the data and uses gnuplot to create a 7 decade FFT > with log x-axis. The right display for phase noise. > C source, runs on Linux in my case. There is also a mostly > completed GPIB solution with a USB dongle. My program > developped problems over the years with the socket interface. > It turned out that you must seek() explicitely when changing > the direction of data flow, and Linux started to enforce that. > > GerhardThanks Gerhard. I've used a similar type of adapter for my 89441A for many years, but it gave up the ghost recently. I've been looking for a replacement but the choice seems to be quite limited, and the price of them seems to have shot up.
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:19:12 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:> Am 03.12.22 um 17:06 schrieb John May: > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:06:41 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > >> Am 02.12.22 um 17:14 schrieb John Larkin: > >>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported > >>> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go > >>> away? > >> I've bought an interface box 10 MBit/s BNC <-> 1000 MBit/s > >> (my normal LAN) for my 89441A FFT analyzer. Maybe €29,99 > >> or so. Works wonderfully. Even if the RG58 cable is only > >> 10 cm long, it needs both 50 Ohm terminations. Probably > >> only a DC level thing. Source was Amazon. > >> > >> Gerhard > > > > Do you have a link? > Unfortunately not. I can see in the history that this was in 4/2014 and > it did cost €65. No longer available, however. > > If you happen to have a 89441A, you can open a BSD style socket > on it over Ethernet and write or read from there. It simply > accepts / answers GPIP interface text strings. > > I have written a program that makes many FFTs over n octaves, > collects the data and uses gnuplot to create a 7 decade FFT > with log x-axis. The right display for phase noise. > C source, runs on Linux in my case. There is also a mostly > completed GPIB solution with a USB dongle. My program > developped problems over the years with the socket interface. > It turned out that you must seek() explicitely when changing > the direction of data flow, and Linux started to enforce that. > > GerhardI've just bought a CentreCOM 210TS MAU transciever for my one, they can be pickup up used for about £15.
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
John May wrote:> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:19:12 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann > wrote: >> Am 03.12.22 um 17:06 schrieb John May: >>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:06:41 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann >>> wrote: >>>> Am 02.12.22 um 17:14 schrieb John Larkin: >>>>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be >>>>> supported long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is >>>>> it likely to go away? >>>> I've bought an interface box 10 MBit/s BNC <-> 1000 MBit/s (my >>>> normal LAN) for my 89441A FFT analyzer. Maybe €29,99 or so. >>>> Works wonderfully. Even if the RG58 cable is only 10 cm long, >>>> it needs both 50 Ohm terminations. Probably only a DC level >>>> thing. Source was Amazon. >>>> >>>> Gerhard >>> >>> Do you have a link? >> Unfortunately not. I can see in the history that this was in 4/2014 >> and it did cost €65. No longer available, however. >> >> If you happen to have a 89441A, you can open a BSD style socket on >> it over Ethernet and write or read from there. It simply accepts / >> answers GPIP interface text strings. >> >> I have written a program that makes many FFTs over n octaves, >> collects the data and uses gnuplot to create a 7 decade FFT with >> log x-axis. The right display for phase noise. C source, runs on >> Linux in my case. There is also a mostly completed GPIB solution >> with a USB dongle. My program developped problems over the years >> with the socket interface. It turned out that you must seek() >> explicitely when changing the direction of data flow, and Linux >> started to enforce that. >> >> Gerhard > > Thanks Gerhard. I've used a similar type of adapter for my 89441A > for many years, but it gave up the ghost recently. I've been looking > for a replacement but the choice seems to be quite limited, and the > price of them seems to have shot up. >I have one with a dead main power supply board. What's wrong with yours? Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
On 3.12.2022 22.04, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:> On 12/3/2022 21:43, Tauno Voipio wrote: >> On 2.12.2022 23.15, Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >>> On 12/2/2022 21:46, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 20:49:25 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 12/2/2022 19:21, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:05:20 +0100, Arie de Muijnck >>>>>> <eternal.september@ademu.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2022-12-02 17:14, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be >>>>>>>> supported >>>>>>>> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >>>>>>>> away? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Single pair 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L are alive and kicking. Used >>>>>>> for industrial (replacement of sensor / actuator field busses) >>>>>>> and automotive. Long distances, and/or multidrop. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair >>>>>>> "Two new variants of 10 megabit per second Ethernet over a single >>>>>>> twisted pair, known as 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L, were >>>>>>> standardized in IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.[2] 10BASE-T1S has its >>>>>>> origins in the automotive industry and may be useful in other >>>>>>> short-distance applications where substantial electrical noise is >>>>>>> present.[3] 10BASE-T1L is a long-distance Ethernet, supporting >>>>>>> connections up to 1 km in length. Both of these standards are >>>>>>> finding applications implementing the Internet of things." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Connectors, cables and most important PHY's are available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arie >>>>>> >>>>>> That sounds good. I was mostly thinking about the usual 4-pair CAT6, >>>>>> so normal computers and hubs and things would work. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Made me check for the dp8392... Still can be found (obviously old >>>>> stock). >>>>> Not many (but me...) have a coaxial Ethernet still running. And well, >>>>> the 10Mbps hub has just one Nukeman behind itself... The hub is >>>>> (I think) just physical, no "buffer and then retransmit". But works >>>>> connected to a 10/100 hub to the "normal" network here. For how long >>>>> hubs and PCs will allow that ... your guess is no worse than mine. >>>>> Though some bridging will have to be feasible for a longer while, >>>>> there are many 10/100 etc. switches around. >>>> >>>> We found coax ethernet to be flakey. Even short stubs or changes in >>>> cable length could break it. >>> >>> Well on a single cable just one bad node can cause problems of course. >>> But in general it works fine as long as all nodes behave. >>>> >>>> There don't seem to be many Catx hubs or hub chips around either. >>>> Everything is a switch, which is usually good. >>>> >>> >>> A switch is good - better - in most typical circumstances. >>> But you cannot use a switch to snoop on another host on the network >>> like with a hub; then the latency with a hub is none, if that >>> matters in some scenario. >> >> Modern switches - even many of the inexpensive ones - are programmable >> with several options. One of the usual options is configuring one of >> the ports to function as a monitor port to sniff on traffic on other >> ports. There are usually options to look at incoming and outgoing >> traffic separately. >> > > Did not know that, thanks! The switches here are not very new and > quite inexpensive and I can't see how I could talk them into doing > that (via which interface etc.) but just knowing this is a possibility > is enough, I'll find out if I need it. So far I have the 10 Mbps hub > which has several RJ-45-s and a coaxial line and I still can put behind > it what I need to snoop at.The switches I'm using for feeding multiple Ethernets to Raspberry Pi are Zyxel GS1200 series. Their manuals should be available online to look how they are used. The other inexpensive switches are pretty similar. Most of them are using chips like the ks8995 from Micrel. There is a pretty good description of the works in the datasheet. The switch devices do not always use all the features of the chips, however. -- -TV
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:46:55 PM UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote:> John May wrote: > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:19:12 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann > > wrote: > >> Am 03.12.22 um 17:06 schrieb John May: > >>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:06:41 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann > >>> wrote: > >>>> Am 02.12.22 um 17:14 schrieb John Larkin: > >>>>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be > >>>>> supported long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is > >>>>> it likely to go away? > >>>> I've bought an interface box 10 MBit/s BNC <-> 1000 MBit/s (my > >>>> normal LAN) for my 89441A FFT analyzer. Maybe €29,99 or so. > >>>> Works wonderfully. Even if the RG58 cable is only 10 cm long, > >>>> it needs both 50 Ohm terminations. Probably only a DC level > >>>> thing. Source was Amazon. > >>>> > >>>> Gerhard > >>> > >>> Do you have a link? > >> Unfortunately not. I can see in the history that this was in 4/2014 > >> and it did cost €65. No longer available, however. > >> > >> If you happen to have a 89441A, you can open a BSD style socket on > >> it over Ethernet and write or read from there. It simply accepts / > >> answers GPIP interface text strings. > >> > >> I have written a program that makes many FFTs over n octaves, > >> collects the data and uses gnuplot to create a 7 decade FFT with > >> log x-axis. The right display for phase noise. C source, runs on > >> Linux in my case. There is also a mostly completed GPIB solution > >> with a USB dongle. My program developped problems over the years > >> with the socket interface. It turned out that you must seek() > >> explicitely when changing the direction of data flow, and Linux > >> started to enforce that. > >> > >> Gerhard > > > > Thanks Gerhard. I've used a similar type of adapter for my 89441A > > for many years, but it gave up the ghost recently. I've been looking > > for a replacement but the choice seems to be quite limited, and the > > price of them seems to have shot up. > > > I have one with a dead main power supply board. What's wrong with yours? > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs > > -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal Consultant > ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics > Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > > http://electrooptical.net > http://hobbs-eo.comMy 89441A is fine, it's my external 10Base-T adapter that failed, hence the MAU transceiver (AT-210TS) replacement.
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
On 12/3/2022 7:58 PM, Dave Platt wrote:> In article <tmgqff$3erkg$3@dont-email.me>, > Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> These are what I have: >> >> <https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-and-ltu/products/nanostation-ac> >> >> they'll do ~15km at half a Gbe rate. They have other devices that will do >> quite a bit more but 15km is already 40 times farther than 1/4mi. > > And with wireless (or fiber) you avoid the problems which can come from > running long copper cables between buildings - in particular, ground > surges.You only make that mistake *once*! :>> One of the gotchas with 10Base2 and 10Base5 is that a lightning > strike anywhere in the area, or a fault current flowing to local ground > in either building, can put some pretty nasty currents through your > coax... causing Ethernet hubs to go PFFT and let all the magic blue smoke > out.Anytime you leave the confines of a building, your best bet is fiber. Wireless can be snooped (even the *presence* of traffic leaks information!) though it is considerably easier to install/setup. It's also a good bottleneck to force you to think about the items you have on each side of the link -- might they be better off colocated than apart? [I made the mistake of locating my SAN in one room and my ESXi server in another. So, I've got fiber strands running between the rooms instead of between adjacent boxes! :< I'll fix this on the next equipment deployment iteration.]
Reply by ●December 4, 20222022-12-04
John May wrote:> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:46:55 PM UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> John May wrote: >>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:19:12 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann >>> wrote: >>>> Am 03.12.22 um 17:06 schrieb John May: >>>>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:06:41 PM UTC, Gerhard Hoffmann >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Am 02.12.22 um 17:14 schrieb John Larkin: >>>>>>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be >>>>>>> supported long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is >>>>>>> it likely to go away? >>>>>> I've bought an interface box 10 MBit/s BNC <-> 1000 MBit/s (my >>>>>> normal LAN) for my 89441A FFT analyzer. Maybe €29,99 or so. >>>>>> Works wonderfully. Even if the RG58 cable is only 10 cm long, >>>>>> it needs both 50 Ohm terminations. Probably only a DC level >>>>>> thing. Source was Amazon. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gerhard >>>>> >>>>> Do you have a link? >>>> Unfortunately not. I can see in the history that this was in 4/2014 >>>> and it did cost €65. No longer available, however. >>>> >>>> If you happen to have a 89441A, you can open a BSD style socket on >>>> it over Ethernet and write or read from there. It simply accepts / >>>> answers GPIP interface text strings. >>>> >>>> I have written a program that makes many FFTs over n octaves, >>>> collects the data and uses gnuplot to create a 7 decade FFT with >>>> log x-axis. The right display for phase noise. C source, runs on >>>> Linux in my case. There is also a mostly completed GPIB solution >>>> with a USB dongle. My program developped problems over the years >>>> with the socket interface. It turned out that you must seek() >>>> explicitely when changing the direction of data flow, and Linux >>>> started to enforce that. >>>> >>>> Gerhard >>> >>> Thanks Gerhard. I've used a similar type of adapter for my 89441A >>> for many years, but it gave up the ghost recently. I've been looking >>> for a replacement but the choice seems to be quite limited, and the >>> price of them seems to have shot up. >>> >> I have one with a dead main power supply board. What's wrong with yours? >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs> > My 89441A is fine, it's my external 10Base-T adapter that failed, hence the MAU transceiver (AT-210TS) replacement. >Ah. We generally ignore the built-in Ethernet and use Prologix GPIB-Ethernet adapters. We commonly use them with several instruments at once. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
