On 7/31/2022 12:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:> In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com > says... >> >> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff >> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was >> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the >> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they >> were afraid of them. > > It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 > and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree > and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the > vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax > by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic > engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My > first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now > I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino > world and taught myself how to get around with one.Many people are afraid of what they don't know. They'd prefer to do the same thing over and over again (possibly even becoming expert at it) than to RISK trying something new. (OhMiGosh! I may *fail*!! Or, *look* inept!) I've seen businesses crippled by "sticks-in-the-mud" in positions of power/influence who are dead set on letting the company move away from the things *they* know ("knew" being a better word for it!). By the time they are forced out of those positions, the firm is often sadly behind in a market that they may have previously *led*! And, now has a tougher battle to prove to their market that they can, once again, be relevant! Personally, I have no desire to "dig another hole" -- I learned most of what I'm going to learn about "digging holes" from the first one, thankyouverymuch! Let's try something different, now...
not OT : fear
Started by ●July 26, 2022
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:>In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com >says... >> >> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff >> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was >> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the >> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they >> were afraid of them. >> >> >> > >It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 >and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree >and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the >vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax >by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic >engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My >first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now >I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino >world and taught myself how to get around with one.Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards. Things have just got a bit denser. Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common silicon, isn't much different from when they were on separate chips. Transistors, then ICs, then uPs, were game changers. What's the next one? Programmable analog chips keep getting invented and keep dying. That's interesting.
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery > <rmow...@charter.net> wrote: > > >In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com > >says... > >> > >> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff > >> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was > >> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the > >> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they > >> were afraid of them. > >> > >> > >> > > > >It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 > >and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree > >and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the > >vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax > >by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic > >engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My > >first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now > >I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino > >world and taught myself how to get around with one. > Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We > had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards. > Things have just got a bit denser. > > Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common > silicon, isn't much different from when they were on separate chips.and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after designing it all with free tools that's a big difference from, say, 20 years ago
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:> https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/ > > What's wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected > children but are afraid of life. > > Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear > warps prudent judgement. > > I've had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5 > volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and > masks for everything. And who wouldn't crank up a power supply to see > how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating. > > People are terrified of abs max. That's an interesting topic, abs max. > Especially for RF parts. > > Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft! > > I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear > circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies.PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!!
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>s�ndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com: >> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery >> <rmow...@charter.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com >> >says... >> >> >> >> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff >> >> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was >> >> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the >> >> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they >> >> were afraid of them. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 >> >and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree >> >and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the >> >vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax >> >by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic >> >engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My >> >first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now >> >I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino >> >world and taught myself how to get around with one. >> Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We >> had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards. >> Things have just got a bit denser. >> >> Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common >> silicon, isn't much different from when they were on separate chips. > >and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs >professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after >designing it all with free tools > >that's a big difference from, say, 20 years agoYes. I wonder how many do. My mom set up a revolving credit line with Allied Electronics when I was a kid. I could order anything, with a modest monthly average, maybe $15 I recall.
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT), Simon S Aysdie <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:>On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/ >> >> What's wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected >> children but are afraid of life. >> >> Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear >> warps prudent judgement. >> >> I've had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5 >> volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and >> masks for everything. And who wouldn't crank up a power supply to see >> how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating. >> >> People are terrified of abs max. That's an interesting topic, abs max. >> Especially for RF parts. >> >> Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft! >> >> I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear >> circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies. > >PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!!I only masked for a couple of very good restaurants, which was silly because as soon as they served water everyone took their masks off. Some people are still masking, even outdoors. I guess they will for the rest of their lives.
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote:> On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote: >> Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems: >> https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/ > > I think the article has a valid point. I've got hopes for the maker > culture but I don't know how many participate. Our new library has a > nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser > cutters and so forth.The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing video games, didn't learn any construction skills, but find themselves dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them anything. Don't know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don't understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want to customize drones. Sad really.
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:58:34 AM UTC+10, Ralph Mowery wrote:> In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com > says... > > > > Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff > > happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was > > almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the > > power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they > > were afraid of them. > > > > > > > It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 > and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree > and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the > vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax > by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic > engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My > first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now > I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino > world and taught myself how to get around with one.The problem isn't the age difference, but the attitude difference. I'm 79, and I happily use my computer to fill out my tax information. My father wouldn't have a computer in the house, but as soon as he died, I got my mother to buy one. It took her a while to get to use it. For about a year my nephews - her grandchildren - pulled my e-mails off her computer every week and typed in her responses, but she watched them do and could eventually do it for herself and compose her own replies, and we swapped e-mails every day for about a decade until senile dementia hit her. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On 07/31/2022 01:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:> In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com > says... >> >> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff >> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was >> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the >> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they >> were afraid of them. >> >> >> > > It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 > and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree > and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the > vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax > by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic > engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My > first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now > I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino > world and taught myself how to get around with one. >It's not only 10 years. A friend that I went to high school and college with went on to get his doctorate. He'd been on a work/study program with IBM and immediately went to work for them at their Vermont semiconductor operation. When I visited him in the '80s he had just bought a PCjr. and was trying to figure out what to do with it. Actually just buying a PCjr was indicative of cluelessness. My brother was quite a bit older than I and was an aeronautical engineer who'd worked for GE, Boeing, and Thiokol retiring as a VP. He had no interest in computers whatsoever. His wife had one that was mainly used to look up recipes and email her children.
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On 07/31/2022 02:09 PM, Don Y wrote:> On 7/31/2022 12:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: >> In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com >> says... >>> >>> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff >>> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was >>> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the >>> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they >>> were afraid of them. >> >> It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 >> and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree >> and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the >> vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax >> by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic >> engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My >> first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now >> I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino >> world and taught myself how to get around with one. > > Many people are afraid of what they don't know. They'd prefer > to do the same thing over and over again (possibly even becoming > expert at it) than to RISK trying something new. (OhMiGosh! > I may *fail*!! Or, *look* inept!)Sort of like the Public Service engineers I knew through the IEEE. For my money when you've seen one HV transmission line you've seen them all but they were happy with the same old same old.
