On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:33:46 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:>On 07/31/2022 03:28 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>> s�ndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com: >>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery >>>> <rmow...@charter.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com >>>>> says... >>>>>> >>>>>> Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff >>>>>> happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was >>>>>> almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the >>>>>> power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they >>>>>> were afraid of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72 >>>>> and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree >>>>> and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the >>>>> vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax >>>>> by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic >>>>> engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My >>>>> first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now >>>>> I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino >>>>> world and taught myself how to get around with one. >>>> Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We >>>> had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards. >>>> Things have just got a bit denser. >>>> >>>> Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common >>>> silicon, isn't much different from when they were on separate chips. >>> >>> and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs >>> professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after >>> designing it all with free tools >>> >>> that's a big difference from, say, 20 years ago >> >> Yes. I wonder how many do. >> >> My mom set up a revolving credit line with Allied Electronics when I >> was a kid. I could order anything, with a modest monthly average, >> maybe $15 I recall. >> > >I sort of had a credit line with Les Couch... He might have been one of >the original electronic recyclers. His technique was a little crude; >heat a circuit board over a barbecue grill until the solder flowed, turn >it over, and slam it on the table to see what fell out. The salvage went >into labeled but uncatalogued Mason jars stored on shelves in the cellar. > >At one time I wanted to build a CDI. I needed some ferrite toroids that >didn't exactly grow on trees. With the help of a cousin I tracked down >one on the many IBM spinoff cottage industries in Kingston that handled >ferrite stuff. I drove down, found the guy working out of his garage, >and explained what I wanted. Actually selling them would have been a >mountain of paperwork so he gave me a bag of 'samples' and wished me luck. > >I hate to admit it but RatShack was a major source of components. It got >a little better when Tandy bought Allied.Ratshack used to have a lot of components, but I guess the world passed them by. We called them RusskyShack because they all seemed to be run by Russians. Sort of like Cambodians and donuts or Indians and motels.
not OT : fear
Started by ●July 26, 2022
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
Reply by ●July 31, 20222022-07-31
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:39:49 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:>On 07/31/2022 03:32 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT), Simon S Aysdie >> <gwhite@ti.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >>>> https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/ >>>> >>>> What's wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected >>>> children but are afraid of life. >>>> >>>> Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear >>>> warps prudent judgement. >>>> >>>> I've had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5 >>>> volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and >>>> masks for everything. And who wouldn't crank up a power supply to see >>>> how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating. >>>> >>>> People are terrified of abs max. That's an interesting topic, abs max. >>>> Especially for RF parts. >>>> >>>> Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft! >>>> >>>> I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear >>>> circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies. >>> >>> PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!! >> >> I only masked for a couple of very good restaurants, which was silly >> because as soon as they served water everyone took their masks off. >> >> Some people are still masking, even outdoors. I guess they will for >> the rest of their lives. >> > >I went to an Irish festival in the park yesterday and there were only a >few maskers. Some of them lost the masks as the day went on. The 100 >degree weather might have been a factor. I can't imagine...Masking is rare now here in San Francisco. People got bored with covid and all the news now is monkeypox. I know how to stop the monkey pox epidemic in a week.
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 1/8/22 12:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 09:02:36 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> > wrote: > >> On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote: >>> On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote: >>>> Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems: >>>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/ >>> >>> I think the article has a valid point. I've got hopes for the maker >>> culture but I don't know how many participate. Our new library has a >>> nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser >>> cutters and so forth. >> >> The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing >> video games, didn't learn any construction skills, but find themselves >> dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how >> to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them anything. >> >> Don't know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use >> CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use >> a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never >> fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don't >> understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want >> to customize drones. >> >> Sad really. > > > A manual mill is better to learn on. You can feel the forces.A plain bastard file or a hacksaw is better still. If you don't understand cutting, you have no business using a cutting machine, let alone an automated one. When my uncle (retired watchmaker) started his apprenticeship in the 1950s, one of the first tasks was to cut two rough 2" cubes, and using only files and scrapers, to make them into identical cubes such that any pair of faces would align perfectly on all four edges, and be flat enough that you could pick up the other block by stiction alone. That took four months of work. Without understanding the processes that can turn two rough blocks of mild steel into perfectly cubic gauge blocks, the rest of the apprenticeship would have been wasted. As are the efforts of most `makers`. CH
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 07/31/2022 08:34 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> Ratshack used to have a lot of components, but I guess the world > passed them by. > > We called them RusskyShack because they all seemed to be run by > Russians. Sort of like Cambodians and donuts or Indians and motels.I think the component side suffered from a lack of demand and their attempt to get into consumer goods never gelled. When the one here went out I picked up some Arduino related stuff cheap. My favorite was a Radio Shack in a small Maine town. It was in the era when Tandy was almost respectable in the business world and they were sourcing many of the systems for local businesses. It was also one stop shopping. You could pick up a .357, ammunition, a bottle of booze, cigs, your mail, and some essential grocery items. There was one in Ajo AZ that doubled as a Sears catalog outlet and did a brisk business in appliances headed south of the border. The owner also played a guitar so there were music odds and ends. Fortunately Tony, the owner, also had the town laundromat in his holdings. The last time I was there he still had some NOS RadioShack components.
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 07/31/2022 06:43 PM, Don Y wrote:> On 7/31/2022 5:37 PM, rbowman wrote: >> On 07/31/2022 12:51 PM, Don Y wrote: >>> We're targeting the "junior high" crowd -- 11 - 13yo. The thinking >>> being >>> that you want to get them "pointed" in a STEM direction before they >>> start >>> their high school education (which, in many places, requires students to >>> choose >>> a business vs. college vs. vocational path for their curriculum -- >>> prior to >>> that, everyone is largely treated the same) >> >> That makes sense. I assume some slurp it up and ask for more while the >> bulk stumble along. > > We have "magnet schools" here that "specialize" in particular subject > areas. Students can freely attend *if* accepted. You'd not want a > kid to get interested in STEM in his final year in the school system > and have missed out on those years when he *could* have received a > more targeted education (if his interest had been developed sooner). > > The goal of the education system should be to provide the best > education appropriate to the needs/desires of the student. > > Did *you* know what you wanted to do with your life when you were 14?I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life when I entered college at 16. Today I'd go for cognitive science but neither that or computer science existed at the time. FORTRAN IV and punchcards didn't light my fire either. It was years later when I could wirewrap a 8080 board on the kitchen table and make it do tricks that I started easing into software. I never did really have a plan. Shit happened and I adapted. The closest I came to a plan was an attempt to remain in the dying US machine tool business.
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 07/31/2022 08:25 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:43:10 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> On 7/31/2022 5:37 PM, rbowman wrote: >>> On 07/31/2022 12:51 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>> We're targeting the "junior high" crowd -- 11 - 13yo. The thinking being >>>> that you want to get them "pointed" in a STEM direction before they start >>>> their high school education (which, in many places, requires students to >>>> choose >>>> a business vs. college vs. vocational path for their curriculum -- prior to >>>> that, everyone is largely treated the same) >>> >>> That makes sense. I assume some slurp it up and ask for more while the bulk >>> stumble along. >> >> We have "magnet schools" here that "specialize" in particular subject >> areas. Students can freely attend *if* accepted. You'd not want a >> kid to get interested in STEM in his final year in the school system >> and have missed out on those years when he *could* have received a >> more targeted education (if his interest had been developed sooner). >> >> The goal of the education system should be to provide the best >> education appropriate to the needs/desires of the student. >> >> Did *you* know what you wanted to do with your life when you were 14? > > I did when I was 10. Electrical engineer. >My family pushed that but I wasn't so sure. It's a first generation to go to college thing. Blue collar workers in manufacturing plants see the engineers as top dogs. It takes a couple of generations before doctors, lawyers, architects, and so forth become options let alone gender studies and English literature.
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 1:31:34 PM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:> On 1/8/22 12:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 09:02:36 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_...@please.net> > > wrote: > > > >> On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote: > >>> On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote: > >>>> Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems: > >>>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/ > >>> > >>> I think the article has a valid point. I've got hopes for the maker > >>> culture but I don't know how many participate. Our new library has a > >>> nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser > >>> cutters and so forth. > >> > >> The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing > >> video games, didn't learn any construction skills, but find themselves > >> dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how > >> to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them anything. > >> > >> Don't know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use > >> CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use > >> a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never > >> fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don't > >> understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want > >> to customize drones. > >> > >> Sad really. > > > > > > A manual mill is better to learn on. You can feel the forces. > A plain bastard file or a hacksaw is better still. If you don't > understand cutting, you have no business using a cutting machine, let > alone an automated one. > > When my uncle (retired watchmaker) started his apprenticeship in the > 1950s, one of the first tasks was to cut two rough 2" cubes, and using > only files and scrapers, to make them into identical cubes such that any > pair of faces would align perfectly on all four edges, and be flat > enough that you could pick up the other block by stiction alone. That > took four months of work. > > Without understanding the processes that can turn two rough blocks of > mild steel into perfectly cubic gauge blocks, the rest of the > apprenticeship would have been wasted. As are the efforts of most `makers`.Johansson blocks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block Never did it, but when I was a graduate student, I told my supervisor that I was going to need two circular optical window in UV-transparent silica glass. So he gave me a thin slab of cast silica, and I spent a a couple of weeks cutting out two circular disks (copper wire stretched in a hacksaw frame loaded with carborundum - silicon carbide - paste) then polishing them flat. They didn't end up optically flat, but rather very slightly domed, which I could have fixed but didn't need to. I though it was a complete waste of time, but knew how apprentice-ships worked. The electronics came later. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 07/31/2022 08:39 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:39:49 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> > wrote: > >> On 07/31/2022 03:32 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT), Simon S Aysdie >>> <gwhite@ti.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/ >>>>> >>>>> What's wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected >>>>> children but are afraid of life. >>>>> >>>>> Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear >>>>> warps prudent judgement. >>>>> >>>>> I've had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5 >>>>> volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and >>>>> masks for everything. And who wouldn't crank up a power supply to see >>>>> how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating. >>>>> >>>>> People are terrified of abs max. That's an interesting topic, abs max. >>>>> Especially for RF parts. >>>>> >>>>> Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft! >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear >>>>> circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies. >>>> >>>> PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!! >>> >>> I only masked for a couple of very good restaurants, which was silly >>> because as soon as they served water everyone took their masks off. >>> >>> Some people are still masking, even outdoors. I guess they will for >>> the rest of their lives. >>> >> >> I went to an Irish festival in the park yesterday and there were only a >> few maskers. Some of them lost the masks as the day went on. The 100 >> degree weather might have been a factor. I can't imagine... > > Masking is rare now here in San Francisco. People got bored with covid > and all the news now is monkeypox. > > I know how to stop the monkey pox epidemic in a week. >Would it be insensitive to predict a monkeypox spike in SF after the Dore Alley event?
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 07/31/2022 08:29 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> We donated our old milling machine to a local maker shop. Now we have > a classic Bridgeport and a new Tormach.J-head? http://obscurevermont.com/the-jones-and-lamson-factory/ That's specifically about Jones and Lamsom but it's sad to have watched the Connecticut Valley go from the machine tool capitol of the world to a place where the major good is meth in my lifetime. China is taking the heat currently but the us has been pissing it all away for 50 years.
Reply by ●August 1, 20222022-08-01
On 07/31/2022 09:31 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:> On 1/8/22 12:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 09:02:36 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> >> wrote: >> >>> On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote: >>>> On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote: >>>>> Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems: >>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think the article has a valid point. I've got hopes for the maker >>>> culture but I don't know how many participate. Our new library has a >>>> nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser >>>> cutters and so forth. >>> >>> The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing >>> video games, didn't learn any construction skills, but find themselves >>> dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how >>> to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them >>> anything. >>> >>> Don't know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use >>> CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use >>> a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never >>> fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don't >>> understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want >>> to customize drones. >>> >>> Sad really. >> >> >> A manual mill is better to learn on. You can feel the forces. > > A plain bastard file or a hacksaw is better still. If you don't > understand cutting, you have no business using a cutting machine, let > alone an automated one. > > When my uncle (retired watchmaker) started his apprenticeship in the > 1950s, one of the first tasks was to cut two rough 2" cubes, and using > only files and scrapers, to make them into identical cubes such that any > pair of faces would align perfectly on all four edges, and be flat > enough that you could pick up the other block by stiction alone. That > took four months of work.Making Jo blocks without lapping would be difficult. Making a metal lathe with hand tools is another challenge. Given a lathe you can make almost anything including a better lathe. If you're hardcore: http://gingerybooks.com/ Gingery's series started with bootstrapping your way up by building a simple foundry for either aluminum or zamac. Zamac has a much lower melting point and gives you something to do with those otherwise useless pennies.
