On 11/15/2021 20:07, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Mon, 15 Nov 2021 20:03:14 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff > <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <smu7d3$emg$1@dont-email.me>: > >> On 11/15/2021 19:40, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> On a sunny day (Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:03:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >>> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <smu3tn$8jl$1@dont-email.me>: >>> >>>> On 11/15/2021 17:51, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:35:02 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >>>>> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <smtun7$6v6$1@dont-email.me>: >>>>> >>>>>> The unix filenaming system is broken by design. >>>>> >>>>> It is super good! >>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, you can have 512 files named Panteltie using different cases. >>> >>> Cool! >>> >>> Read: >>> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/48770/how-to-match-case-insensitive-patterns-with-ls >>> to list files ignoring case >> >> You don't have to convince me a solution can be programmed to just about >> any flaw, including the file naming in unix. >> >> >>> >>>> Very advanced, how stupid people have been to stick to the Latin >>>> alphabet for millenia. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Their file names are case dependent; >>>>> >>>>> And that is a GOOD thing! >>>>> You need to learn how to search with >>>>> locate -i >>>>> As you likely know mA is not the same as MA and mOhm is not MOhm >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, good thing you figured out an exception to cling to, >>>> see my comment above. >>>> >>>> Then the naming is not the only shortcoming of the unix filesystem, >>>> it (like that of windows) makes worst fit allocation impractical. >>> >>> You really need to read up on this stuff if you want to use it. >>> I have NEVER encoutered a problem with Linux file systems, and tried many and use many. >> >> Oh I am sure it works, in its flawed by design way. Not using "worst >> fit" for allocation brings just more fragmentation than there has to be >> which you probably have not even noticed - or did not know there >> was life without it. >> And you have learned to live with the flawed use of text. >> >>> >>> But MS windows crap filesystem as it comes with some USB sticks or is used by my Chinese digital TV receivers >>> even limit file size to 4293402624 bytes. >>> 4293402624 Jul 8 2020 /mnt/sda2/video/satellite/magnum_3x_part_1.ts >>> 41383680 Jul 8 2020 /mnt/sda2/video/satellite/magnum_3x_part_2.ts >>> >>> -> 2^32 = 4294967296 >> >> I never intended to compare these two filesystems. The MS approach with >> file names is the correct one though, and the unix' use of text for file >> names is the flawed one, that much is obvious. >> >>> >>>> The latter can be fixed by writing/adopting a well designed filesystem; >>>> the naming flaw cannot be fixed. >>> >>> You are just blaming the car that you do not know how to drive. >>> >> >> Yeah, what do I know about filesystems. How many filesystems have >> you designed. >> >> I know you cannot switch off from fuming mode - your entering of which I >> predicted - so I suggest you just let it go, you don't really know what >> you are talking about. >> >> Have a nice evening. > > I am not in fuming mode, just trying to teach you, but > you seemingly just post insults to get a response as you feel so lonely (your own words in previous posts) > Maybe get a cat or dog ? Or go to bar and try it there? > > So you almost qualify for the filter now. > >Insults? Teach me? How to use the ali-express toys you are tinkering with, sure. Feel free to filter me, I won't respond any further to your fuming posts anyway.
rant: filenames
Started by ●November 8, 2021
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
On 2021-11-08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:> What do you think this is? [1] > > mech_eng_jw.pdfperhaps: JW series relays from Panasonic/Nais> datasheet.pdf ?something downloaded from "alldatasheet.com"> And why do some PDFs page continuously and some jump between pages? > You can't even see all of the stuff on the jumpers.some problem with your PDF reader.> [1] it's a data sheet for a relayI think I have a copy here. -- Jasen.
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 11:45:59 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> > And why do some PDFs page continuously and some jump between pages? > You can't even see all of the stuff on the jumpers.Some are created from individual pages, others are created as a single, long file. If the file isn't protected, you should be able to select page or continuous display.
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
On 16/11/21 5:48 am, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:> On 11/15/2021 19:56, Jeroen Belleman wrote: >> On 2021-11-15 18:03, Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >>> On 11/15/2021 17:51, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:35:02 +0200) it happened >>>> Dimiter_Popoff >>>> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <smtun7$6v6$1@dont-email.me>: >>>> >>>>> The unix filenaming system is broken by design. >>>> >>>> It is super good! >>> >>> >>> Yeah, you can have 512 files named Panteltie using different cases. >>> Very advanced, how stupid people have been to stick to the Latin >>> alphabet for millenia. >>> >> >> Now, now Dimiter, just because you can does not mean it's a good >> idea to do so. But I would resent any filesystem *preventing* me >> from doing so. Nothing in UNIX prevents you from naming your all >> your files in all upper case, should you want to. Choose your evil. >> >> Jeroen Belleman >> > > File names are text entities and as such they are for human consumption. > And how humans use text has been pretty well established for a long > time. > The Unix filesystem breaks these rules. Indeed you can use only upper > or only lower case to work around that so you don't inadvertently > access one of two very similar - in both name and contents - files; > but then you lose the use of capitalization which humans are used to. > So the correct way of naming files is obviously to preserve the case > information while treating the names uniquely regardless of case.And that's the default for MacOS, which is after all just a Unix. Mind you I turn it off, because I prefer the Unix way. However, with Unicode, it's worse. Do you want to consider comparable all accented and non-accented characters? How about composed vs decomposed characters? Should all filenames suffer UTF-8 normalisation? It's a slippery slope. Clifford Heath.
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
Dimiter_Popoff wrote:> On 11/15/2021 15:29, legg wrote: >> .... >> I've always created my own directory structure, holding, where >> possible, related files and programs where they can be found >> using the minimum of reason. >> >> Strangely, a ecent Linux distro that I'm trying to adopt doesn't >> seem to allow this - even going so far as to deny the existence >> of navigable disc and directory structures. Can't fathom that >> philosophy. >> >> RL >> > > > The unix filenaming system is broken by design. Their file names > are case dependent; and this is so deeply entrenched because of > legacy etc. there is zero chance this will ever be fixed. > > I know this post of mine will put the linux users in fuming mode > but it is the reality - and they will be fuming because they > know it.Fuming? Why would anyone want a case-insensitive file system? There's nothing special about ASCII after all--if you like case insensitivity, how about allowing all Unicode glyphs that look alike to sort the same way too? No thanks. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
On 11/15/2021 23:22, Clifford Heath wrote:> On 16/11/21 5:48 am, Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >> On 11/15/2021 19:56, Jeroen Belleman wrote: >>> On 2021-11-15 18:03, Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >>>> On 11/15/2021 17:51, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:35:02 +0200) it happened >>>>> Dimiter_Popoff >>>>> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <smtun7$6v6$1@dont-email.me>: >>>>> >>>>>> The unix filenaming system is broken by design. >>>>> >>>>> It is super good! >>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, you can have 512 files named Panteltie using different cases. >>>> Very advanced, how stupid people have been to stick to the Latin >>>> alphabet for millenia. >>>> >>> >>> Now, now Dimiter, just because you can does not mean it's a good >>> idea to do so. But I would resent any filesystem *preventing* me >>> from doing so. Nothing in UNIX prevents you from naming your all >>> your files in all upper case, should you want to. Choose your evil. >>> >>> Jeroen Belleman >>> >> >> File names are text entities and as such they are for human consumption. >> And how humans use text has been pretty well established for a long >> time. >> The Unix filesystem breaks these rules. Indeed you can use only upper >> or only lower case to work around that so you don't inadvertently >> access one of two very similar - in both name and contents - files; >> but then you lose the use of capitalization which humans are used to. >> So the correct way of naming files is obviously to preserve the case >> information while treating the names uniquely regardless of case. > > And that's the default for MacOS, which is after all just a Unix. > Mind you I turn it off, because I prefer the Unix way.You prefer it out of habit or for some other reason? (My habits are case-independent for naming and the case-dependent unix style has been a nuisance to me, far from the worst nuisance I have had really but still). Same for my symbol naming habits when programming.> > However, with Unicode, it's worse. Do you want to consider comparable > all accented and non-accented characters? How about composed vs > decomposed characters? Should all filenames suffer UTF-8 normalisation? > > It's a slippery slope.It is slippery slope indeed and I have not considered other alphabets than Latin and Cyrillic. However having a separate bit per byte of name (9 bits per character) - the way file names are stored in a dps directory entry - allows case change for any byte. Now what happens when the characters are two byte etc. is up to the higher (than search) level, I have neither done that nor thought of it. And how it goes with the Chinese hieroglyphs... I am not sure I even want to think of that. But I believe text should remain text as we have had it for ages, I can't see a need to have case dependent naming. Or passwords (rant mode on), I really hate when they enforce that on me. I can make up unique enough words case independently and I memorize *words* (rant mode off).
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
On 11/15/2021 23:29, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >> On 11/15/2021 15:29, legg wrote: >>> .... >>> I've always created my own directory structure, holding, where >>> possible, related files and programs where they can be found >>> using the minimum of reason. >>> >>> Strangely, a ecent Linux distro that I'm trying to adopt doesn't >>> seem to allow this - even going so far as to deny the existence >>> of navigable disc and directory structures. Can't fathom that >>> philosophy. >>> >>> RL >>> >> >> >> The unix filenaming system is broken by design. Their file names >> are case dependent; and this is so deeply entrenched because of >> legacy etc. there is zero chance this will ever be fixed. >> >> I know this post of mine will put the linux users in fuming mode >> but it is the reality - and they will be fuming because they >> know it. > > Fuming? Why would anyone want a case-insensitive file system? > > There's nothing special about ASCII after all--if you like case > insensitivity, how about allowing all Unicode glyphs that look alike to > sort the same way too? > > No thanks. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs >Why do you need the case sensitivity? To me, it is normal to say copy *.jpg and this to copy all .jpg and all .JPG files, for instance.
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
Dimiter_Popoff wrote:> On 11/15/2021 23:29, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >>> On 11/15/2021 15:29, legg wrote: >>>> .... >>>> I've always created my own directory structure, holding, where >>>> possible, related files and programs where they can be found >>>> using the minimum of reason. >>>> >>>> Strangely, a ecent Linux distro that I'm trying to adopt doesn't >>>> seem to allow this - even going so far as to deny the existence >>>> of navigable disc and directory structures. Can't fathom that >>>> philosophy. >>>> >>>> RL >>>> >>> >>> >>> The unix filenaming system is broken by design. Their file names >>> are case dependent; and this is so deeply entrenched because of >>> legacy etc. there is zero chance this will ever be fixed. >>> >>> I know this post of mine will put the linux users in fuming mode >>> but it is the reality - and they will be fuming because they >>> know it. >> >> Fuming? Why would anyone want a case-insensitive file system? >> >> There's nothing special about ASCII after all--if you like case >> insensitivity, how about allowing all Unicode glyphs that look alike >> to sort the same way too? >> >> No thanks.> > Why do you need the case sensitivity? To me, it is normal to > say copy *.jpg and this to copy all .jpg and all .JPG files, > for instance.Why use both extensions? Pick one and stick with it. If you have some good reason to use both, you can always go cp $(find . -iname "*jpg") destdir or something equivalent. If you need do that a lot, a 1- or 2-line script will automate it for you. No biggie either way.h Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
mandag den 15. november 2021 kl. 22.55.44 UTC+1 skrev Dimiter Popoff:> On 11/15/2021 23:29, Phil Hobbs wrote: > > Dimiter_Popoff wrote: > >> On 11/15/2021 15:29, legg wrote: > >>> .... > >>> I've always created my own directory structure, holding, where > >>> possible, related files and programs where they can be found > >>> using the minimum of reason. > >>> > >>> Strangely, a ecent Linux distro that I'm trying to adopt doesn't > >>> seem to allow this - even going so far as to deny the existence > >>> of navigable disc and directory structures. Can't fathom that > >>> philosophy. > >>> > >>> RL > >>> > >> > >> > >> The unix filenaming system is broken by design. Their file names > >> are case dependent; and this is so deeply entrenched because of > >> legacy etc. there is zero chance this will ever be fixed. > >> > >> I know this post of mine will put the linux users in fuming mode > >> but it is the reality - and they will be fuming because they > >> know it. > > > > Fuming? Why would anyone want a case-insensitive file system? > > > > There's nothing special about ASCII after all--if you like case > > insensitivity, how about allowing all Unicode glyphs that look alike to > > sort the same way too? > > > > No thanks. > > > > Cheers > > > > Phil Hobbs > > > Why do you need the case sensitivity? To me, it is normal to > say copy *.jpg and this to copy all .jpg and all .JPG files, > for instance.you are asking for 0x6a,0x70,0x67 and 0x4a,0x50,0x47 to be the same
Reply by ●November 15, 20212021-11-15
Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Mon, 15 Nov 2021 08:29:32 -0500) it happened legg > <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in <3bn4pghrk12l7i45mkqkb538g497h5lnbn@4ax.com>: > >> I've always created my own directory structure, holding, where >> possible, related files and programs where they can be found >> using the minimum of reason. >> >> Strangely, a ecent Linux distro that I'm trying to adopt doesn't >> seem to allow this - even going so far as to deny the existence >> of navigable disc and directory structures. Can't fathom that >> philosophy.To Rob: Are you booted from a live disk? Those generally try to be polite and not let you scribble on your HDD by accident. If you know what you're doing, you can use sudo to do whatever you like. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
