Small single-phase VFD for 120V?

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 8:31:12 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some 1/3 wit psychiatric patient with electrodes on his head. 
> ================================================
> > 
> > > I think Phil has done us a big service by making actual measurements! 
> >> 
> > But those are measurements on an unknown motor;
> ** Same as hundred of millions of low cost pedestal and floor fans ever made. 

But not  Jeorg's muffin fan - a Pabst all-metal muffin fan with a shaded pole motor (which is still pretty unspecific).
> 
> The fucking clueless one is YOU - ASSHOLE !! 

I'm sure you like to think so, but you do seem to be the leader in the cluelessness stakes.
 
> Why have you not died of Covid yet ? 

He is probably asking whit3rd, but he has managed to snip all the thread information.

> Made pact with the fucking devil ? 

Vaccination probably works better, and would be cheaper.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 Some Ranting PiIe of Demented Shit posted 
 ================================== 

> > ** They behave ** exactly** the same way under Variac speed control.

> That's Phil's assertion.

**  Better than any of your 100% fake ones  -cunthead.

> Since he doesn't seem to have an example of Jeorg's muffin fan 

**  Muffin is brand name   -  you stupid cunthead. 


>  a Pabst all-metal muffin fan

**   LOL   -   only muffins this dumb, lying cunt knows are edible  !!!!


> with a shaded pole motor (which is still pretty unspecific) he does seem to be lying.

**  Same design as dozens of competing brands.
   A great many pro audio amplifies used them for cooling -  older generation ones. 

  But since those were  "bread & butter" work for me ever since 1978 I have seen more than a few. 

 

.....  Phil 

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 10:01:29 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some Ranting PiIe of Demented Shit posted 
> ==================================
> > > ** They behave ** exactly** the same way under Variac speed control. 
> 
> > That's Phil's assertion.
>
> > Since he doesn't seem to have an example of Jeorg's muffin fan
> ** Muffin is brand name - you stupid cunthead.

It might have been once. Rather like biro. 

> > a Pabst all-metal muffin fan.
>
> ** LOL - only muffins this dumb, lying cunt knows are edible !!!!
>
> > with a shaded pole motor (which is still pretty unspecific) he does seem to be lying.
>
> ** Same design as dozens of competing brands. 
>
> A great many pro audio amplifies used them for cooling - older generation ones. 

Not just amplifiers. Any electronics that ended up getting put into a rack tended to need a few muffin fans to get the warm air out.

Finding space to fit them into, and working out how to get the air circulating in a way that was actually helpful took a bit of effort.
 
> But since those were "bread & butter" work for me ever since 1978 I have seen more than a few. 

But didn't have to specify them, or organise their power supply (which was the kind of work I was expected to pass off to junior engineers, and mostly could).

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 Some Ranting PiIe of Demented Shit posted 
================================== 
>
> > ** Muffin is brand name - you stupid cunthead.
>
> It might have been once. 

**  ROTFL. 

 
> > > a Pabst all-metal muffin fan.
> > 
> > ** LOL - only muffins this dumb, lying cunt knows are edible !!!! 

** Much, munch, munch, munch.... 
  ==========================
 > 
> > ** Same design as dozens of competing brands. 
> > 
> > A great many pro audio amplifies used them for cooling - older generation ones.
>
> Not just amplifiers.

**  Irrelevant & absurd context shift. 

> > But since those were "bread & butter" work for me ever since 1978 I have seen more than a few.

> But didn't have to specify them, or organise their power supply 

**  Fucking stupid  OT drivel. 



  .....   Phil 

[snip]
> I have an inductive-rated dimmer up front which came with the previous 
> set of fans and worked. However, those fans had a plastic frame and that 
> inevitably failed in the hot environment. The mfg thought it was ok but 
> it wasn't. So I replaced them with high-end Papst all-metal AC fans and 
> those stall out between the 40% and 80% settings. Which is why I used a 
> variac from then on. 
> 
> Phil suggested it could be residual DC but I measured it with a lowpass 
> and the UPS doesn't have a DC offset.
> -- 
> Regards, Joerg 
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Hi Joerg, whatever variable-drive- speed control method you go with, consider one that provides:
(a) initial full power, for ~5 seconds, to ensure fan gets up to speed
(b) closed-loop control, like a tachometer (optocoupler, etc.)
since for some motors (those not designed to be varied) the drive isn't predicable or linear formula...
cheers, RS

Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/21 2:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>>   Joerg wrote:
>> =============
>>>
>>>> ** Have you tried a Variac?
>>>>
>>>> Work just fine with most kinds of induction motor fans.
>>>>
>>> Yes, sorry, that was in an answer to John and not in the original post.
>>> There is a UPS up front and that doesn't even like the smallest variac I
>>> have.
>> 
>> ** FFS    -  so the real story has nothing to do with fan speed control  ?????
>> 
> 
> It does. The variac was never that great, fans become a bit louder at 
> lower speeds. A VF drive would solve two problems, better fan control 
> (more quiet) and it should run fine with any UPS. I was always on the 
> lookout for a VFD even before buying this UPS.
> 
>> 
>>> The inverter in the UPS starts to buzz and then issues an overload
>>> shut-off even without any fans connected to its tap-off. The UPS is a
>>> small one with a modified sine inverter, no space for anything bigger there.
>>>
>>> This was a puzzler to me because that same variac runs fine on a smaller
>>> 200W modified sine camping inverter, with and without fans connected.
>>>
>> 
>> **  Betcha the "modified sine"  has a significant DC offset.
>>   Variacs are just like toroidal transformers and insanely sensitive to offsets on the AC supply.
>>   A pair of reverse parallel electros in series with the Variac will eliminate such offsets.
>> 
>> See page from my colleague Rod Elliott:
>> 
>> https://sound-au.com/articles/xfmr-dc.htm
>> 
> 
> Good point, could be a design flaw in the UPS. I can check that.

Unfortunately, any UPS that's not really true sine wave is a design flaw.

Manufacturers will even pass square waves off as "modified sine wave". 
While a VFD should rectify this ugly input and make a new AC wave for the 
motor, but good luck finding one speced to take input from a dubious UPS 
and work correctly.

"the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions" (Bill Sloman)

"the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so" (paraphrased)

Bozo the Clown...

-- 
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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> Subject: Re: Small single-phase VFD for 120V?
> From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
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> 
> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 10:01:29 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Some Ranting PiIe of Demented Shit posted 
>> ==================================
>> > > ** They behave ** exactly** the same way under Variac speed control. 
>> 
>> > That's Phil's assertion.
>>
>> > Since he doesn't seem to have an example of Jeorg's muffin fan
>> ** Muffin is brand name - you stupid cunthead.
> 
> It might have been once. Rather like biro. 
> 
>> > a Pabst all-metal muffin fan.
>>
>> ** LOL - only muffins this dumb, lying cunt knows are edible !!!!
>>
>> > with a shaded pole motor (which is still pretty unspecific) he does seem to be lying.
>>
>> ** Same design as dozens of competing brands. 
>>
>> A great many pro audio amplifies used them for cooling - older generation ones. 
> 
> Not just amplifiers. Any electronics that ended up getting put into a rack tended to need a few muffin fans to get the warm air out.
> 
> Finding space to fit them into, and working out how to get the air circulating in a way that was actually helpful took a bit of effort.
>  
>> But since those were "bread & butter" work for me ever since 1978 I have seen more than a few. 
> 
> But didn't have to specify them, or organise their power supply (which was the kind of work I was expected to pass off to junior engineers, and mostly could).
> 
> -- 
> Bill Sloman, Sydney
> 
> 
> 

"the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions" (Bill Sloman)

"the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so" (paraphrased)

Bozo the Clown...

-- 
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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> Subject: Re: Small single-phase VFD for 120V?
> From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
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> 
> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 8:31:12 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Some 1/3 wit psychiatric patient with electrodes on his head. 
>> ================================================
>> > 
>> > > I think Phil has done us a big service by making actual measurements! 
>> >> 
>> > But those are measurements on an unknown motor;
>> ** Same as hundred of millions of low cost pedestal and floor fans ever made. 
> 
> But not  Jeorg's muffin fan - a Pabst all-metal muffin fan with a shaded pole motor (which is still pretty unspecific).
>> 
>> The fucking clueless one is YOU - ASSHOLE !! 
> 
> I'm sure you like to think so, but you do seem to be the leader in the cluelessness stakes.
>  
>> Why have you not died of Covid yet ? 
> 
> He is probably asking whit3rd, but he has managed to snip all the thread information.
> 
>> Made pact with the fucking devil ? 
> 
> Vaccination probably works better, and would be cheaper.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Sloman, Sydney
> 
> 
> 

 Cydrome Leader wrote:
=================
> >
> >> ** FFS - so the real story has nothing to do with fan speed control ????? 
> >> 
> > 
> > It does. The variac was never that great, fans become a bit louder at 
> > lower speeds.

** Nonsense - that never happens. 
    You must have some other issue going on. 

 >  A VF drive ...

** Is an insane idea. 


> > Good point, could be a design flaw in the UPS. I can check that. 
> 
> Unfortunately, any UPS that's not really true sine wave is a design flaw. 
> 
   **   Yawnnnnnnnnn.......    wot drivel,. 

> Manufacturers will even pass square waves off as "modified sine wave". 

** Works just fine with SMPSs. 

> While a VFD should rectify this ugly input and make a new AC wave for the 
> motor,
** Nut case idea. 


but good luck finding one speced to take input from a dubious UPS 
> and work correctly.

** Bet any one you find will work just fine.

......  Phil  

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from 
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is 
> CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Fri, 15 Oct 2021 19:36:53 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <skcl8k$h9d$7@dont-email.me>.

g8XUet4311TT