On 10/08/2020 5:06 am, david eather wrote:> suggestions please > TIASo you might have noticed there is a wide opinion on the matter in hand :-)
Is there a good book for learning about valves/tubes?
Started by ●August 9, 2020
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 8/11/2020 10:57 AM, Pimpom wrote:> On 8/11/2020 1:16 AM, gray_wolf wrote: >> On 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote: >>> On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote: >>>> suggestions please >>>> TIA >>> >>> Dunno exactly what you're looking for, but the suggestions you've gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that's what interests you, look up "1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design." (There are also later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world :-) ) >>> >> >> Good question! I'm wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about tubes? >> Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp? >> > Good question, yes. So far the OP hasn't made clear what he wants > to do. In the absence of such clarification, I'd guess that most > people who ask the question want to gain enough knowledge about > tubes to be able to a) design tube circuits OR b) repair a tube > amp OR c) simply understand what the fuss is all about without a > specific goal in mind. >RCA's RC-** series of tube data books may also be useful. They include brief explanations of how tubes are constructed as well as several examples of practical circuits. One of the mid-1960s editions was among my first books on electronics. Search for "RCA receiving tube manual"
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:42:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 2020-08-12 01:16, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 01:50:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> On 2020-08-11 00:40, Grant Taylor wrote: >>>> On 8/10/20 4:47 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely. ;) >>>> >>>> Why does it have to be serial? Why can't it be parallel? >>> >>> Takes too many tubes. See the IBM 650. > >> >> Some of those tube machines had hardware floating point. > >There were giants in those days, for sure. I got to meet one or two of >them when I was at IBM, and heard stories about many more. > >It was much more practical in the old days, when (a) there weren't any >good alternatives, and (b) you had your own tube design and >manufacturing facility. > >I don't think anybody makes 6CW4s anymore. > >This from the inimitable Ken Shirriff: ><http://www.righto.com/2018/01/examining-1954-ibm-mainframes-pluggable.html> > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThose things sure were ugly. HP gear was made that way, lots of phenolic and ratty wires. The Tek ceramic terminal strip construction was maybe the first beautiful electronics. I like to design beautiful electronics. It actually works better too. https://www.dropbox.com/s/af5eds90ub50rf2/J270_Censored.jpg?raw=1 -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 2020-08-12 10:47, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:42:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 2020-08-12 01:16, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 01:50:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2020-08-11 00:40, Grant Taylor wrote: >>>>> On 8/10/20 4:47 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Why does it have to be serial? Why can't it be parallel? >>>> >>>> Takes too many tubes. See the IBM 650. >> >>> >>> Some of those tube machines had hardware floating point. >> >> There were giants in those days, for sure. I got to meet one or >> two of them when I was at IBM, and heard stories about many more. >> >> It was much more practical in the old days, when (a) there weren't >> any good alternatives, and (b) you had your own tube design and >> manufacturing facility. >> >> I don't think anybody makes 6CW4s anymore. >> >> This from the inimitable Ken Shirriff: >> <http://www.righto.com/2018/01/examining-1954-ibm-mainframes-pluggable.html> >> >> >>Cheers>> >> Phil Hobbs > > Those things sure were ugly. > > HP gear was made that way, lots of phenolic and ratty wires.I used to own a couple of those modules (sans tubes) when I was a kid (circa 1972). I had no idea what they were, so I stripped the passives out of them and threw them away. :( Made perfect sense at the time.> The Tek ceramic terminal strip construction was maybe the first > beautiful electronics. > > I like to design beautiful electronics. It actually works better > too. > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/af5eds90ub50rf2/J270_Censored.jpg?raw=1I agree in general, but sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, ya know? Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:33:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 2020-08-12 10:47, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:42:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> On 2020-08-12 01:16, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 01:50:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2020-08-11 00:40, Grant Taylor wrote: >>>>>> On 8/10/20 4:47 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely. ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> Why does it have to be serial? Why can't it be parallel? >>>>> >>>>> Takes too many tubes. See the IBM 650. >>> >>>> >>>> Some of those tube machines had hardware floating point. >>> >>> There were giants in those days, for sure. I got to meet one or >>> two of them when I was at IBM, and heard stories about many more. >>> >>> It was much more practical in the old days, when (a) there weren't >>> any good alternatives, and (b) you had your own tube design and >>> manufacturing facility. >>> >>> I don't think anybody makes 6CW4s anymore. >>> >>> This from the inimitable Ken Shirriff: >>> <http://www.righto.com/2018/01/examining-1954-ibm-mainframes-pluggable.html> >>> >>> >>> >Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> Those things sure were ugly. >> >> HP gear was made that way, lots of phenolic and ratty wires. > >I used to own a couple of those modules (sans tubes) when I was a kid >(circa 1972). I had no idea what they were, so I stripped the passives >out of them and threw them away. :( Made perfect sense at the time. > >> The Tek ceramic terminal strip construction was maybe the first >> beautiful electronics. >> >> I like to design beautiful electronics. It actually works better >> too. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/af5eds90ub50rf2/J270_Censored.jpg?raw=1 > >I agree in general, but sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta >do, ya know? > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThe thing about PCB (schematic and layout) beauty is that the modest time spent tweaking cosmetics is actually another opportunity to think and review, to accidentally correct bugs or discover improvements. The time spent is usually repaid by getting it right first pass. It's like reading and beautifying your own code before you compile and run. That board works first pass. So far. It makes adjustable delay and width and amplitude pulses from 0.5 to 45 volts peak, clean with 1 ns edges. I did that out of lockdown boredom. It's all analog, trimpots, because I didn't want to get involved with uP or FPGA code. There must be a use for it somewhere. I discovered these: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/power-supplies-board-mount/dc-dc-converters/922?k=srh05 They make anything up to 75 volts into something usable, 12 in my case. My box can run from 24 or 48 volt warts. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 10.8.20 0.06, david eather wrote:> suggestions please > TIAFor transmitting use: The Care and Feeding of Power Grid Tubes, by Eimac, if you can get hold of one. (I'll keep mine). -- -TV
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:15:52 +0300, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:>On 10.8.20 0.06, david eather wrote: >> suggestions please >> TIA > >For transmitting use: The Care and Feeding of Power Grid Tubes, >by Eimac, if you can get hold of one. (I'll keep mine).Has anyone mentioned the RCA receiving and transmitting tube manuals? They had a good PMT manual too.
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Tauno Voipio wrote:> On 10.8.20 0.06, david eather wrote: > > suggestions please > > TIA > > For transmitting use: The Care and Feeding of Power Grid Tubes, > by Eimac, if you can get hold of one. (I'll keep mine).I'd like to see the datasheets on the EEV Klystrons that were used in a Comark UHF TV transmitter that I maintained. 65KW output, per tube. It's bee over 30 years, so I don't remember their type number. It was the last Comark built with Klystrons. The next transmitter used Klystrodes, instead. Higher efficiency, less cooling required and lower electric bills.
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 11/08/2020 12:27 am, Pimpom wrote:> On 8/11/2020 1:16 AM, gray_wolf wrote: >> On 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote: >>> On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote: >>>> suggestions please >>>> TIA >>> >>> Dunno exactly what you're looking for, but the suggestions you've gotten so >>> far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is >>> the design *of* valves/tubes. If that's what interests you, look up "1940 >>> RCA Vacuum Tube Design." (There are also later editions.) You can find free >>> PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be >>> relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world :-) ) >>> >> >> Good question! I'm wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about tubes? >> Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp? >> > Good question, yes. So far the OP hasn't made clear what he wants to do. In the > absence of such clarification, I'd guess that most people who ask the question > want to gain enough knowledge about tubes to be able to a) design tube circuits > OR b) repair a tube amp OR c) simply understand what the fuss is all about > without a specific goal in mind.The thought just occurred that to me that perhaps he has no electronic experience at all and heard the word vacuum tube some where and wondered what the fuss was about. Twenty five years ago I had a young guy call me at the shop asking about repairing a jukebox that had no sound. I asked if it was solid state or vacuum tube and he had no idea. Being a ham from 1953 I was shocked at his reply. I thought everybody knew about tubes.
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 10:08:51 PM UTC-4, gray_wolf wrote:> On 11/08/2020 12:27 am, Pimpom wrote: > > On 8/11/2020 1:16 AM, gray_wolf wrote: > >> On 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote: > >>> On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote: > >>>> suggestions please > >>>> TIA > >>> > >>> Dunno exactly what you're looking for, but the suggestions you've gotten so > >>> far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is > >>> the design *of* valves/tubes. If that's what interests you, look up "1940 > >>> RCA Vacuum Tube Design." (There are also later editions.) You can find free > >>> PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be > >>> relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world :-) ) > >>> > >> > >> Good question! I'm wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about tubes? > >> Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp? > >> > > Good question, yes. So far the OP hasn't made clear what he wants to do. In the > > absence of such clarification, I'd guess that most people who ask the question > > want to gain enough knowledge about tubes to be able to a) design tube circuits > > OR b) repair a tube amp OR c) simply understand what the fuss is all about > > without a specific goal in mind. > > The thought just occurred that to me that perhaps he has no electronic > experience at all > and heard the word vacuum tube some where and wondered what the fuss was about. > Twenty five years ago I had a young guy call me at the shop asking about repairing > a jukebox that had no sound. I asked if it was solid state or vacuum tube and he > had > no idea. Being a ham from 1953 I was shocked at his reply. I thought everybody knew > about tubes.Back in the '60s and early '70s, we had customers who didn't know whad brand of TV they owned, even though they stared at their TV for hours every day. Others asked, 'Aren't all TVs RCA?'. Each service truck's inventory of spare parts was tailored to a couple brands. If the wrong brand was given, the tech had to haul their set to the shop, rather than make extra trips. It was amazing the high percentage of people who were too lazy to walk over to their TV to get at least a brand, if not the model number so the tech could take the service data with them. That was a big reason that I left consumer electronics.
