"Joerg" wrote in message news:fgqd1hFbrh3U1@mid.individual.net... On 2018-03-13 09:13, Carl Ijames wrote:> "Joerg" wrote in message news:fgq533Fa2aoU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2018-03-12 12:53, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:30:29 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2018-03-11 13:59, John Larkin wrote: >>> Just got myself stainless buckets for fermentation, woohoo! >> >> Well, some kids are easily amused. >> > > Got to be thankful for the little thing. They are $100 versions, > marginal production quality in the welds and other things but they work > and sure look much more expensive than they were. The plastic ones can't > hack it because wort (the "soup" after brewing and before fermenting) is > aggressive in its pH value and etches into the plastic over time. > ============================================================ > > What size buckets?7 gallons.> ... Have you looked at cheap stock pots? HarborFreight has > a 4 pot set (6, 8, 12, 16 qt) stainless steel set for $22. One reviewer > complained that the handle rivets were aluminum so you might need to > replace > those, but hey, you get lids! :-) Lowes has a 40 qt for $60 that they > say > can be used for brewing up to 7 gallon batches. Anyway, just a thought. >Those don't work well because you need a seal. This is what I got: https://www.chapmanequipment.com/products/7-gallon-steeltank-fermenter For brewing I have an aluminum 13 gallon Tamale steamer pot that was on sale for $30 plus tax at Forklift. It is wide enough so I can place two 1kW electric burners from Walmart underneath, back to back and plugged into different circuits. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ ============================================================ Oh well, I assumed that when you said "bucket" you meant a bucket, not a sealable fermentation vessel. Back to lurking for me. -- Regards, Carl Ijames
Dot allowed as characters allowed in netlist?
Started by ●March 11, 2018
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
"John Larkin" wrote in message news:5rqfadtmkmk6g5ijn0r9ertapmvdqta203@4ax.com... On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 21:22:17 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:>"John Larkin" wrote in message >news:mn5bad1ceq9tmco3aqkd6t8aps8a79qdc4@4ax.com... > >On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:30:55 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>>news:pjnaadpnmpenvpsj4k5shiqrubus9njn8d@4ax.com... >> >> >>>You could adapt the dreaded 4K7 convention: 4MM5drill. >> >> >>>Its not dreaded. It's a great way to notate numbers. > > >>The original justification was that decimal points were somehow >>fragile and got lost on drawings, so the wrong parts values got >>installed. It was nonsense of course. > >err.. nonsenses on its nonsense :-) > >Spice schematics, using a dotted grid, are far, far easier and more >reliable >to read as 4k7 than 4.7k, that's why I have it in SS. Go and actually try >it... > >-- Kevin Aylward >http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html>Are these dots hard to tell from the grid?>https://www.dropbox.com/s/priqv9f5jm5gx13/HP_PS_5.jpg?raw=1Yes. As is, much harder than the 4k7. Screen resolutions, colours, positions, glasses, all effect the result. -- Kevin Aylward http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
Den mandag den 12. marts 2018 kl. 01.05.11 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:31:40 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >Den mandag den 12. marts 2018 kl. 00.24.44 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:47:45 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >Den søndag den 11. marts 2018 kl. 23.27.16 UTC+1 skrev Jeroen Belleman: > >> >> On 11/03/18 18:08, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> > On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:37:59 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Sorry for the occasional non-political post ... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> In the past I have seen special character issues with netlists across > >> >> >> foreign country boundaries. For example, in some countries they use a > >> >> >> comma as the decimal "point" and NXP also has those dreaded "...,215" in > >> >> >> some part numbers. That can blow a netlist out of the water. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> How about a real decimal point (a dot) inside a footprint? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Main reason I ask is for mounting hole designators. A client wants all > >> >> >> this in metric dimensions and that will require fractions of a > >> >> >> millimeter. For clarity I'd like to list that as "4.5MM_DRILL" footprint > >> >> >> or similar. If dots are not allowed I could only use 4500UM_DRILL" or > >> >> >> such and that's less understandable. > >> >> > > >> >> > We delete extra characters in our parts database. TO247, not TO-247. > >> >> > But decimal points are necesssary. We haven't seen any problems with > >> >> > that, but we rarely send BOMs outside the company. > >> >> > > >> >> > You could adapt the dreaded 4K7 convention: 4MM5drill. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> Oh, that would be a 4m5 drill. A 4M5 drill would be something to > >> >> behold! > >> >> > >> > > >> >m is the SI unit for meter soo, > >> > > >> >https://3.imimg.com/data3/GP/EO/MY-4706592/tunnel-boring-machine-500x500.jpg > >> > > >> > > >> > >> Since we have SI units, and accepted scientific notation, why do some > >> people use the insane and ambiguous 6v8 style? That seems to be mostly > >> amateurs and audio people. > >> > > > >how is 6V8 ambiguous ? > > > > > > > > That's just ugly. But how would you do 6850 volts? > > 6v85K 6kv85 6k85v ? > > Does r mean ohms, or decimal point? > > 0r5 could be next to a resistor, or an inductor.I believe engineering format for 0.5 would be 500m do you put Ω/F/H after every component value?
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
On 2018-03-12 13:30, Steve Wilson wrote:> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:21:24 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote: >>> I guess there are few threads here that actually talk about capacitor >>> values. But in LTspice, I often use 1e-12, 1e-9, 1e-6, 1e-3, etc, when >>> there can be confusion about the value using standard nomenclature. > >> Those are 1p 1n 1u 1m respectively. Scientific notation. > > Yes, I know. The 1u notation can be troublesome if LTspice is configured to > convert it to the symbol. If you try to send it via SED, the client may > convert it to an unknown symbol. This wrecks the file so it cannot be read > until the symbol is converted back. Using 1e-6 solves the problem. > > There are other cases in LTspice where it makes more sense to use exponential > notation to avoid confusion rather than scientific notation. >It's worse. LTSpice cannot distinguish between milli and mega if you use m and M. It'll always see that as milli. You have to write MEG or e6, else it'll go wrong. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
On 2018-03-13 13:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> Den mandag den 12. marts 2018 kl. 01.05.11 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:31:40 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>> Den mandag den 12. marts 2018 kl. 00.24.44 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:47:45 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Den søndag den 11. marts 2018 kl. 23.27.16 UTC+1 skrev Jeroen Belleman: >>>>>> On 11/03/18 18:08, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:37:59 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry for the occasional non-political post ... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the past I have seen special character issues with netlists across >>>>>>>> foreign country boundaries. For example, in some countries they use a >>>>>>>> comma as the decimal "point" and NXP also has those dreaded "...,215" in >>>>>>>> some part numbers. That can blow a netlist out of the water. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about a real decimal point (a dot) inside a footprint? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Main reason I ask is for mounting hole designators. A client wants all >>>>>>>> this in metric dimensions and that will require fractions of a >>>>>>>> millimeter. For clarity I'd like to list that as "4.5MM_DRILL" footprint >>>>>>>> or similar. If dots are not allowed I could only use 4500UM_DRILL" or >>>>>>>> such and that's less understandable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We delete extra characters in our parts database. TO247, not TO-247. >>>>>>> But decimal points are necesssary. We haven't seen any problems with >>>>>>> that, but we rarely send BOMs outside the company. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You could adapt the dreaded 4K7 convention: 4MM5drill. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh, that would be a 4m5 drill. A 4M5 drill would be something to >>>>>> behold! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> m is the SI unit for meter soo, >>>>> >>>>> https://3.imimg.com/data3/GP/EO/MY-4706592/tunnel-boring-machine-500x500.jpg >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Since we have SI units, and accepted scientific notation, why do some >>>> people use the insane and ambiguous 6v8 style? That seems to be mostly >>>> amateurs and audio people. >>>> >>> >>> how is 6V8 ambiguous ? >>> >>> >>> >> >> That's just ugly. But how would you do 6850 volts? >> >> 6v85K 6kv85 6k85v ? >> >> Does r mean ohms, or decimal point? >> >> 0r5 could be next to a resistor, or an inductor. > > I believe engineering format for 0.5 would be 500m > > do you put Ω/F/H after every component value? >Not in the schematics but in module specs I do because those are also read by non-EEs. It has sometimes resulted in engineers asking me how I got the Omega symbol in there since it's not on a US keyboard. No kidding. I was sometimes tempted to respond that I imported a keyboard from Greece for that :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 14:20:31 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: [snip]>> > >It's worse. LTSpice cannot distinguish between milli and mega if you use >m and M. It'll always see that as milli. You have to write MEG or e6, >else it'll go wrong.Common problem with all Berkeley-related spice variants... case-independent. I personally have no problem coping with "m" and "MEG"... but beware those model farts from a Phoenix company which has more PhD's than posterior orifices >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
On 2018-03-13 08:43, John Larkin wrote:> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:43:07 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 1:59:26 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >>> The original justification was that decimal points were somehow >>> fragile and got lost on drawings, so the wrong parts values got >>> installed. It was nonsense of course. >> >> Too young to recall thermal fax machines? >> Lines that crossed got rather fat at the intersection, >> and the images faded over time. > > I started with hand-drawn schematics on vellum, and blueprint > machines. And I still use both. And I never lose or mistake decimal > points or tie points. Maybe that's because I had two semisters of > engineering drawing in college. > > I don't think that a D-size schematic could be FAXd, then or now. > > A lot of current "wisdom" is left over from olden days, and especially > bad, amateur habits of olden days. We have computers now. Parts lists > are generated automatically from our schematics, and computers don't > mistake decimal points for coffee stains. Software gets the net lists > right even when two wires cross. >I have found bugs in netlists. Mostly where wires looked like they connected to a component but didn't. I check every schematic on all my designs against the netlist by hand. Doing one right now. It's tedious grunt work but better safe that sorry. On the last one I found a bug that was my fault. The eye sight isn't getting better and I thought one node was connected to -12V where in reality it was +12V. Going through the netlist that jumped right at me ... whew. Down to my last crayon pencil now. It is still from my old 1st grade kit and I thought they'd last until retirement. A new set of 12 is en route from China, $1.87 free ship, couldn't believe it. That should last me for netlist checks until I am 120.> Scientific notation and SI units are correct. The 4K7 thing is amateur > audio nonsense. >It was worse in the old days. Often a schematic said .001 with no units whatsoever and you had to guess from the function of the circuit what that meant. Not a problem for us seasoned guys but that could throw freshly minted engineers a curve. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
Am 13.03.2018 um 22:20 schrieb Joerg:> It's worse. LTSpice cannot distinguish between milli and mega if you use > m and M. It'll always see that as milli. You have to write MEG or e6, > else it'll go wrong.That is the correct behavior. Changing that would break old decks that used to work for 40 years. Gerhard
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
On 2018-03-13 14:38, Joerg wrote:> On 2018-03-13 08:43, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:43:07 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 1:59:26 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >>> >>>> The original justification was that decimal points were somehow >>>> fragile and got lost on drawings, so the wrong parts values got >>>> installed. It was nonsense of course. >>> >>> Too young to recall thermal fax machines? >>> Lines that crossed got rather fat at the intersection, >>> and the images faded over time. >> >> I started with hand-drawn schematics on vellum, and blueprint >> machines. And I still use both. And I never lose or mistake decimal >> points or tie points. Maybe that's because I had two semisters of >> engineering drawing in college. >> >> I don't think that a D-size schematic could be FAXd, then or now. >> >> A lot of current "wisdom" is left over from olden days, and especially >> bad, amateur habits of olden days. We have computers now. Parts lists >> are generated automatically from our schematics, and computers don't >> mistake decimal points for coffee stains. Software gets the net lists >> right even when two wires cross. >> > > I have found bugs in netlists. Mostly where wires looked like they > connected to a component but didn't. I check every schematic on all my > designs against the netlist by hand. Doing one right now. It's tedious > grunt work but better safe that sorry. > > On the last one I found a bug that was my fault. The eye sight isn't > getting better and I thought one node was connected to -12V where in > reality it was +12V. Going through the netlist that jumped right at me > ... whew. > > Down to my last crayon pencil now. It is still from my old 1st grade kit > and I thought they'd last until retirement. A new set of 12 is en route > from China, $1.87 free ship, couldn't believe it. That should last me > for netlist checks until I am 120. >The set just arrived. The orange pencil has the exact same color is my last one from the 60's. Amazing.> >> Scientific notation and SI units are correct. The 4K7 thing is amateur >> audio nonsense. >> > > It was worse in the old days. Often a schematic said .001 with no units > whatsoever and you had to guess from the function of the circuit what > that meant. Not a problem for us seasoned guys but that could throw > freshly minted engineers a curve. >-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 13, 20182018-03-13
Den tirsdag den 13. marts 2018 kl. 22.38.37 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:> On 2018-03-13 08:43, John Larkin wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:43:07 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 1:59:26 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> > >>> The original justification was that decimal points were somehow > >>> fragile and got lost on drawings, so the wrong parts values got > >>> installed. It was nonsense of course. > >> > >> Too young to recall thermal fax machines? > >> Lines that crossed got rather fat at the intersection, > >> and the images faded over time. > > > > I started with hand-drawn schematics on vellum, and blueprint > > machines. And I still use both. And I never lose or mistake decimal > > points or tie points. Maybe that's because I had two semisters of > > engineering drawing in college. > > > > I don't think that a D-size schematic could be FAXd, then or now. > > > > A lot of current "wisdom" is left over from olden days, and especially > > bad, amateur habits of olden days. We have computers now. Parts lists > > are generated automatically from our schematics, and computers don't > > mistake decimal points for coffee stains. Software gets the net lists > > right even when two wires cross. > > > > I have found bugs in netlists. Mostly where wires looked like they > connected to a component but didn't. I check every schematic on all my > designs against the netlist by hand. Doing one right now. It's tedious > grunt work but better safe that sorry.missing connections to a component should be caught by ERC> > On the last one I found a bug that was my fault. The eye sight isn't > getting better and I thought one node was connected to -12V where in > reality it was +12V. Going through the netlist that jumped right at me > ... whew.that is hard to catch, sorta a like spellchecker can't pick the right word for you
