On 03/12/2018 04:45 AM, piglet wrote:> On 12/03/2018 08:12, Steve Wilson wrote: >> Depends on your POV. I'm from the old school of mmf and cps. Switching >> to Hz >> was easy, but I could never get my mind around nF. Eventually I >> figured out >> 1nF was 1,000mmf, but I get completely lost at 10 nf. >> > > mmF can be mega confusing - I worked with one old-timer who used it for > *milli-micro* (aka nano) but books of that era also used *micro-micro* > (aka pico). Usually the context help avert diaster. > > pigletAlways pico IME. Nanofarads were written as 0.001 MF. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net https://hobbs-eo.com
Dot allowed as characters allowed in netlist?
Started by ●March 11, 2018
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On 03/12/2018 01:55 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:31:33 -0500, "Tim Williams" > <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: > >> Who actually has problems parsing strings anymore? >> >> Don't write your PCB tools in God damned PHP. >> >> On a related rant: >> >> Stop naming fucking files in ALL_CAPS_WITH_UNDERSCORES. We have long file >> names, case and spaces now. Like, for two or three decades. > > Spaces are awful when using command line tools. > > You either have to use quotes or some wild card or file name > completion, if available. > >> >> We can write appealing, pronouncable file names now. Like "Power Supply Rev >> 1". >> >> Tim >+1. YouCanAlsoJustUseCamelCaseLikeAnormalPerson. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net https://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On 2018-03-11 10:31, Winfield Hill wrote:> John Larkin wrote... >> >> You could adapt the dreaded 4K7 convention: 4MM5drill. > > It helps to allow lower case, 4mm5 >At least many of the legacy layout systems which are still in wide use are case-insensitive and lower/upper case distinction would become lost. Customary is all caps which is probably why Eagle also defaults to that. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On 2018-03-11 13:59, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:30:55 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" > <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>> "John Larkin" wrote in message >>> news:pjnaadpnmpenvpsj4k5shiqrubus9njn8d@4ax.com... >> >> >>> You could adapt the dreaded 4K7 convention: 4MM5drill. >> >> >> Its not dreaded. It's a great way to notate numbers. >> >> >> -- Kevin Aylward >> http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html > > The original justification was that decimal points were somehow > fragile and got lost on drawings, so the wrong parts values got > installed. It was nonsense of course. > > I just frosted a Guinness Cake, which involved using 1cup25 of > powdered sugar. >I used 1TSP5 of Irish moss during my brewing. A Session Ale and a Pale Ale. Just got myself stainless buckets for fermentation, woohoo! -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On 2018-03-11 15:12, krw@notreal.com wrote:> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:37:59 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> Sorry for the occasional non-political post ... >> >> In the past I have seen special character issues with netlists across >> foreign country boundaries. For example, in some countries they use a >> comma as the decimal "point" and NXP also has those dreaded "...,215" in >> some part numbers. That can blow a netlist out of the water. >> >> How about a real decimal point (a dot) inside a footprint? >> >> Main reason I ask is for mounting hole designators. A client wants all >> this in metric dimensions and that will require fractions of a >> millimeter. For clarity I'd like to list that as "4.5MM_DRILL" footprint >> or similar. If dots are not allowed I could only use 4500UM_DRILL" or >> such and that's less understandable. > > How about 4m5_Drill ...4.5 meters would require "minor re-tooling".> ... or perhaps 4mm5_Drill? >If I have to. Then I'd rather use micrometers though. I just wanted to know if dots are legit in netlists for older and newer layout software. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On 2018-03-11 11:32, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:37:59 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> Sorry for the occasional non-political post ... >> >> In the past I have seen special character issues with netlists across >> foreign country boundaries. For example, in some countries they use a >> comma as the decimal "point" and NXP also has those dreaded "...,215" in >> some part numbers. That can blow a netlist out of the water. >> >> How about a real decimal point (a dot) inside a footprint? >> >> Main reason I ask is for mounting hole designators. A client wants all >> this in metric dimensions and that will require fractions of a >> millimeter. For clarity I'd like to list that as "4.5MM_DRILL" footprint >> or similar. If dots are not allowed I could only use 4500UM_DRILL" or >> such and that's less understandable. > > You should elaborate... the netlist to which you refer is a PCB > netlist, NOT a simulation netlist. >That's why I wrote "footprint". Those are not normally required for a simulator.> However, in simulation netlists one should avoid non-alphanumeric > characters, except that "underscore" is usually allowed. >Dots are very normal in SPICE netlists. I am just not sure about PCB netlists. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:41:04 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 2018-03-11 15:12, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:37:59 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry for the occasional non-political post ... >>> >>> In the past I have seen special character issues with netlists across >>> foreign country boundaries. For example, in some countries they use a >>> comma as the decimal "point" and NXP also has those dreaded "...,215" in >>> some part numbers. That can blow a netlist out of the water. >>> >>> How about a real decimal point (a dot) inside a footprint? >>> >>> Main reason I ask is for mounting hole designators. A client wants all >>> this in metric dimensions and that will require fractions of a >>> millimeter. For clarity I'd like to list that as "4.5MM_DRILL" footprint >>> or similar. If dots are not allowed I could only use 4500UM_DRILL" or >>> such and that's less understandable. >> >> How about 4m5_Drill ... > > >4.5 meters would require "minor re-tooling".That's going to take one big bite out of any board. I'd hope no one would seriously chuck that bit in the CNC drill.> > >> ... or perhaps 4mm5_Drill? >> > >If I have to. Then I'd rather use micrometers though. I just wanted to >know if dots are legit in netlists for older and newer layout software.4500u?
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:30:29 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 2018-03-11 13:59, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:30:55 -0000, "Kevin Aylward" >> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>> "John Larkin" wrote in message >>>> news:pjnaadpnmpenvpsj4k5shiqrubus9njn8d@4ax.com... >>> >>> >>>> You could adapt the dreaded 4K7 convention: 4MM5drill. >>> >>> >>> Its not dreaded. It's a great way to notate numbers. >>> >>> >>> -- Kevin Aylward >>> http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >>> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html >> >> The original justification was that decimal points were somehow >> fragile and got lost on drawings, so the wrong parts values got >> installed. It was nonsense of course. >> >> I just frosted a Guinness Cake, which involved using 1cup25 of >> powdered sugar. >> > >I used 1TSP5 of Irish moss during my brewing. A Session Ale and a Pale Ale. > >Just got myself stainless buckets for fermentation, woohoo!Well, some kids are easily amused. Have you tried Guinness Cake? It even looks like a draft Guinness. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsbiddz3fv6km3z/Guinness_Cake.JPG?dl=0 -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:21:24 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:>piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On 12/03/2018 08:12, Steve Wilson wrote: >>> Depends on your POV. I'm from the old school of mmf and cps. Switching >>> to Hz was easy, but I could never get my mind around nF. Eventually I >>> figured out 1nF was 1,000mmf, but I get completely lost at 10 nf. > >> mmF can be mega confusing - I worked with one old-timer who used it for >> *milli-micro* (aka nano) but books of that era also used *micro-micro* >> (aka pico). Usually the context help avert diaster. > >> piglet > >You are right. The Radiotron Designers Handbook, 1954 Edition, states > >"Note: The abbreviations mF or mmF should not be used under any >circumstances to indicate microfarads or micro-microfarads, because mF is >the symbol for milli-farads (1 x 10-3 farad). Some reasonable latitude is >allowable with most symbols, but here there is danger of serious error and >misunderstanding." > >p176, http://preview.tinyurl.com/hmnpj2r > >I guess there are few threads here that actually talk about capacitor >values. But in LTspice, I often use 1e-12, 1e-9, 1e-6, 1e-3, etc, when >there can be confusion about the value using standard nomenclature.Those are 1p 1n 1u 1m respectively. Scientific notation. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●March 12, 20182018-03-12
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:21:24 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote: >>I guess there are few threads here that actually talk about capacitor >>values. But in LTspice, I often use 1e-12, 1e-9, 1e-6, 1e-3, etc, when >>there can be confusion about the value using standard nomenclature.> Those are 1p 1n 1u 1m respectively. Scientific notation.Yes, I know. The 1u notation can be troublesome if LTspice is configured to convert it to the symbol. If you try to send it via SED, the client may convert it to an unknown symbol. This wrecks the file so it cannot be read until the symbol is converted back. Using 1e-6 solves the problem. There are other cases in LTspice where it makes more sense to use exponential notation to avoid confusion rather than scientific notation.
