On a sunny day (Mon, 8 May 2017 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <5b517bac-a874-4cbc-95e0-5b9923f52d39@googlegroups.com>:>On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-7, Kevin Aylward wrote: >> "Jim Thompson" wrote in message > >> >That's a remarkably ignorant statement. During my youth slide rules >> >and Smith Charts were taught in high school and college. >> >> Indeed, and we no longer use slide rules. > >Hey, I still use slide rules! Best way to set up a resistor ratio >while rummaging through the stock drawers for a suitable pair >to build the divider. > >And a good log-log chart or nomograph is still useful (just hard to explain >to a millenial). > >The digital age has all the advantages of a digital watch, and none of >the advantages of a clock dial.It is not that hard to display a clock dial, but now you need millions of transistors to do that, and lots of power. Even more fun so the display is then often not readable in direct sunlight... The old clock was... More money for a special monitor / display panel. The power they then get from shoes with generators, Winding the watch took less power. It is called 'progress'.
How to determine Zin, Yout for RF transistor, from A parameters
Started by ●May 6, 2017
Reply by ●May 9, 20172017-05-09
Reply by ●May 9, 20172017-05-09
On a sunny day (Mon, 8 May 2017 20:45:18 +0100) it happened "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote in <7cOdnYebo-VSV43EnZ2dnUU7-fvNnZ2d@giganews.com>:>It is impossible to do modern competitive design using just intuition. Its >too complicated. You need to have an understanding as to what to randomly >fiddle...Randomly fiddling with anything is bad. And with a fiddle it sounds horrible, and will never lead to a number 1 in the charts, not even played via a Marshall amp. I presume you mean Monte Carlo or something. Even then you need some intelligent design to run you stuff on. But.. I am not denying that it is absolutely possible that life formed when accidentally some chemicals interacted in the oceans near a hot vent. that would explain a lot ;-) It is in our genes to tinker...
Reply by ●May 9, 20172017-05-09
On Mon, 8 May 2017 20:44:24 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:>"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message news:oeo0db$vsh$1@news.datemas.de... > >On a sunny day (Sun, 7 May 2017 20:55:15 +0100) it happened "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote in ><BIqdnXfG6Yo55pLEnZ2dnUU7-UPNnZ2d@giganews.com>:>>>However, I do have an OCXO asic in production that runs up to 100MHz, has >>>a >>>few ppb stability, and flat band phase noise approaching -165db, in a very >>>small package. > >>Very impressive,. -165 dB wonder how you measure that. > >Should have said dBc, but I guess you knowing all about oscillators, would >know the standard terminology. > >I should expand on this. This is the noise after the limiter/squarer. Raw >oscillator designs can be -190dBc to -180dBc. A key point is that this is >with an internal 2.5V supply, in a package of 7mmx5mm. Any mere mortal can >get that sort of performance in a 1" square with 12V.At what offset from carrier are those figures measured ? Since we are measuring noise, density, what is the measurement bandwidth, ? 1 Hz? Apparently the carrier power is something like +15 dBm, going -190 dB down from that would be -175 dBm. The _input_ related thermal noise _density_ for a good amplifier is about -174 dBm/Hz, the _output_ related thermal noise density has been amplified by the power gain. For oscillators, the noise floor is often worse. It appears that those noise figures are quoted at large offsets from the carrier, when the output phase noise density has dropped into the broadband noise density.
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:55:33 AM UTC+5:30, John Larkin wrote:> On Mon, 8 May 2017 16:30:31 -0500, "Tim Williams" > <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: > > >"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message > >news:5b517bac-a874-4cbc-95e0-5b9923f52d39@googlegroups.com... > >> Hey, I still use slide rules! Best way to set up a resistor ratio > >> while rummaging through the stock drawers for a suitable pair > >> to build the divider. > > > >There are better ways for that, now, too: > >http://jansson.us/resistors.html > >http://kirr.homeunix.org/electronics/resistor-network-finder/ > >(and other links on the About page) > > > >Tim > > This program > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajmp4kbio1uf7qn/Rugrat.jpg?dl=0 > > finds ratios based on the resistors that we have in stock. > > > > -- > > John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc > picosecond timing precision measurement > > jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com > http://www.highlandtechnology.comThanks to each of you. Looking through my old textbooks, I found very useful formulas in James Carson's book on high frequency amplifiers. These start with the S parameters, and at the end generate the optimized input/output impedances for the active device, which can then be used with e.g., a Smith chart to generate the input/ output matching networks.
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On 05/10/2017 07:15 AM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote:> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:55:33 AM UTC+5:30, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 8 May 2017 16:30:31 -0500, "Tim Williams" >> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >> >>> "whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:5b517bac-a874-4cbc-95e0-5b9923f52d39@googlegroups.com... >>>> Hey, I still use slide rules! Best way to set up a resistor ratio >>>> while rummaging through the stock drawers for a suitable pair >>>> to build the divider. >>> >>> There are better ways for that, now, too: >>> http://jansson.us/resistors.html >>> http://kirr.homeunix.org/electronics/resistor-network-finder/ >>> (and other links on the About page) >>> >>> Tim >> >> This program >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajmp4kbio1uf7qn/Rugrat.jpg?dl=0 >> >> finds ratios based on the resistors that we have in stock. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc >> picosecond timing precision measurement >> >> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com >> http://www.highlandtechnology.com > > Thanks to each of you. Looking through my old textbooks, I found very useful formulas in > James Carson's book on high frequency amplifiers. > These start with the S parameters, and at the > end generate the optimized input/output impedances > for the active device, which can then be used with e.g., a Smith chart to generate the input/ > output matching networks. >Carson is an excellent book. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On Wed, 10 May 2017 04:15:34 -0700 (PDT), dakupoto@gmail.com wrote:>On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:55:33 AM UTC+5:30, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 8 May 2017 16:30:31 -0500, "Tim Williams" >> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >> >> >"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >news:5b517bac-a874-4cbc-95e0-5b9923f52d39@googlegroups.com... >> >> Hey, I still use slide rules! Best way to set up a resistor ratio >> >> while rummaging through the stock drawers for a suitable pair >> >> to build the divider. >> > >> >There are better ways for that, now, too: >> >http://jansson.us/resistors.html >> >http://kirr.homeunix.org/electronics/resistor-network-finder/ >> >(and other links on the About page) >> > >> >Tim >> >> This program >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajmp4kbio1uf7qn/Rugrat.jpg?dl=0 >> >> finds ratios based on the resistors that we have in stock. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc >> picosecond timing precision measurement >> >> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com >> http://www.highlandtechnology.com > >Thanks to each of you. Looking through my old textbooks, I found very useful formulas in >James Carson's book on high frequency amplifiers. >These start with the S parameters, and at the >end generate the optimized input/output impedances >for the active device, which can then be used with e.g., a Smith chart to generate the input/ >output matching networks.I think there is software that will input the s-param table and generate lumped equivalents. There is actually an industry that does that, folks like Modelithics. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On 05/07/2017 04:27 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sun, 7 May 2017 20:56:49 +0100) it happened "Kevin Aylward" > <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote in > <5qmdnXfOYaWf4ZLEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d@giganews.com>: > >> I wrote this over 15 yeas ago: >> >> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/emc2/emc2.html >> >> again, now pay attention to the statement just before the summary. > > Interesting, a short wile ago I was discussing time change in gravity. > As you know clocks slow down in a stronger gravitational field. > The discussion went .. well anyways > I pointed out that time' is defined as definition of second is: > " > the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between > the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom > " > (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second). > I mentioned I have this Rubidium frequency standard in the lab, > and wondered if anybody had brought that AND the caesium clock up to space, > and looked if there was a difference, and mathematicians could have a field day if there was or was not, > as it tells something about the change in electron orbits in a changing gravitational field. > But I guess the audience ... > Never mind.Sure, GPS satellites for instance. There were Mossbauer effect experiments done in the '60s that showed gravitational time dilation going from the ground floor of a building up to the roof. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On a sunny day (Wed, 10 May 2017 10:41:00 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in <lpWdnSD84bbhu47EnZ2dnUU7-cOdnZ2d@supernews.com>:>On 05/07/2017 04:27 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Sun, 7 May 2017 20:56:49 +0100) it happened "Kevin Aylward" >> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote in >> <5qmdnXfOYaWf4ZLEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d@giganews.com>: >> >>> I wrote this over 15 yeas ago: >>> >>> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/emc2/emc2.html >>> >>> again, now pay attention to the statement just before the summary. >> >> Interesting, a short wile ago I was discussing time change in gravity. >> As you know clocks slow down in a stronger gravitational field. >> The discussion went .. well anyways >> I pointed out that time' is defined as definition of second is: >> " >> the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between >> the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom >> " >> (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second). >> I mentioned I have this Rubidium frequency standard in the lab, >> and wondered if anybody had brought that AND the caesium clock up to space, >> and looked if there was a difference, and mathematicians could have a field day if there was or was not, >> as it tells something about the change in electron orbits in a changing gravitational field. >> But I guess the audience ... >> Never mind. > >Sure, GPS satellites for instance. There were Mossbauer effect >experiments done in the '60s that showed gravitational time dilation >going from the ground floor of a building up to the roof. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsYes, but what is interesting is the _difference_ between those types of clocks (if any). Maybe that data is still available, but I am no mathematician by any means [1]. Would somebody have had a go? [1] I exit when I see no connection to the physical world. No parallel universes, warpdrives, strings for me.
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:41:08 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:> On 05/07/2017 04:27 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > On a sunny day (Sun, 7 May 2017 20:56:49 +0100) it happened "Kevin Aylward" > > <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote in > > <5qmdnXfOYaWf4ZLEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d@giganews.com>: > > > >> I wrote this over 15 yeas ago: > >> > >> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/emc2/emc2.html > >> > >> again, now pay attention to the statement just before the summary. > > > > Interesting, a short wile ago I was discussing time change in gravity. > > As you know clocks slow down in a stronger gravitational field. > > The discussion went .. well anyways > > I pointed out that time' is defined as definition of second is: > > " > > the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between > > the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom > > " > > (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second). > > I mentioned I have this Rubidium frequency standard in the lab, > > and wondered if anybody had brought that AND the caesium clock up to space, > > and looked if there was a difference, and mathematicians could have a field day if there was or was not, > > as it tells something about the change in electron orbits in a changing gravitational field. > > But I guess the audience ... > > Never mind. > > Sure, GPS satellites for instance. There were Mossbauer effect > experiments done in the '60s that showed gravitational time dilation > going from the ground floor of a building up to the roof. > > Cheers > > Phil HobbsRobert Pound (etal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pound It's too bad he wasn't on the NMR Nobel prize. A extraordinary experimentalist. George H.> > -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal Consultant > ElectroOptical Innovations LLC > Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics > > 160 North State Road #203 > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > > hobbs at electrooptical dot net > http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●May 10, 20172017-05-10
On 05/10/2017 11:19 AM, George Herold wrote:> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:41:08 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 05/07/2017 04:27 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> On a sunny day (Sun, 7 May 2017 20:56:49 +0100) it happened "Kevin Aylward" >>> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote in >>> <5qmdnXfOYaWf4ZLEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d@giganews.com>: >>> >>>> I wrote this over 15 yeas ago: >>>> >>>> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/emc2/emc2.html >>>> >>>> again, now pay attention to the statement just before the summary. >>> >>> Interesting, a short wile ago I was discussing time change in gravity. >>> As you know clocks slow down in a stronger gravitational field. >>> The discussion went .. well anyways >>> I pointed out that time' is defined as definition of second is: >>> " >>> the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between >>> the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom >>> " >>> (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second). >>> I mentioned I have this Rubidium frequency standard in the lab, >>> and wondered if anybody had brought that AND the caesium clock up to space, >>> and looked if there was a difference, and mathematicians could have a field day if there was or was not, >>> as it tells something about the change in electron orbits in a changing gravitational field. >>> But I guess the audience ... >>> Never mind. >> >> Sure, GPS satellites for instance. There were Mossbauer effect >> experiments done in the '60s that showed gravitational time dilation >> going from the ground floor of a building up to the roof. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Robert Pound (etal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pound > > It's too bad he wasn't on the NMR Nobel prize. > A extraordinary experimentalist. > > George H.Thanks, I'd forgotten the name. He didn't write a lore book like RW Jones's, by any chance? Getting inside the heads of guys like that is always illuminating. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
