On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 08:11:40 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:>On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:55:30 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: > >>> ...snip... >> Thanks! Good collection of data there in your examples! >> >> I do remember doing compensation BC (before CAD) using a pre-emphasis >> leading-edge pulse... on a thousand foot chunk ;-) >> >> I'll look at how PSpice does their lossy T-line, and maybe I can >> adapt. I did some lecturing on skin-effect modeling for Intel eons >> ago... I'll review my notes. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >The book, , addressed SDL over standard ol' twisted telco lines. Is that >of interest? > >The results are a mix of formulas and empirical information supposedly >better than 1% between DC and 10MHz for either 24 or 26 Awg twisted pair. > > >be careuful, my edition has 'errors' in them and you need to look at them >before using them. > > >"ADSL/VDSL Principles" >by Dennis J. Rauschmayer, 1999 >Macmillan Technical Publishing >pp 28-42 > > > > from URL: http://openlibrary.org/books/OL1021222M/ADSL_VDSL_principles > >ADSL/VDSL principles >a practical and precise study of asymmetric digital subscriber lines and >very high speed digital subscriber lines >Dennis J. Rauschmayer. >Published 1999 by Macmillan Technical Publishing in Indianapolis, IN . >Written in English. > > > >Aioe won't let me put in all the lines, so I'll send directly to you a >sample of the 'corrected' formulas for 26Awg wire and uncorrected 24 Awg >wire. > >Anybody else want them, email me, or let me send to you and you can post >them.Got them, Robert, Thanks! ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Twisted Pair
Started by ●December 8, 2013
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 09:01:18 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:> ..snip... > > Got them, Robert, Thanks! > > ...Jim ThompsonYou're welcome. Were 'grunt' models what you were after? What you doing?
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Monday, December 9, 2013 2:39:58 AM UTC-5, Bill Sloman wrote:> > "Necessitates"? Dispersion is a frequency dependent difference in propagation velocity, and necessarily smears out non-sinusoidal waveforms, where the various Fourier components are propagating at different velocities. >Yes, and you can't have frequency dependent propagation velocity without frequency dependent loss, and vice versa.
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Monday, December 9, 2013 12:04:47 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> > Sure. And the step response describes it all. >> John Larkin Highland Technology Inc > > www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com > > > > Precision electronic instrumentation > > Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators > > Custom timing and laser controllers > > Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links > > VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer > > Multichannel arbitrary waveform generatorsActually, if you want to split hairs, and since you can't have a cable without a connector, connectorization does introduce nonlinear IP products if you look down far enough. HP Journal had an article on this effect, IIRC nickel was the bad actor.
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 09:58:35 -0700, <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:> On Monday, December 9, 2013 2:39:58 AM UTC-5, Bill Sloman wrote: > >> >> "Necessitates"? Dispersion is a frequency dependent difference in >> propagation velocity, and necessarily smears out non-sinusoidal >> waveforms, where the various Fourier components are propagating at >> different velocities. >> > > Yes, and you can't have frequency dependent propagation velocity without > frequency dependent loss, and vice versa.does that include a lossless transmission line made up of Z(f) and C(f) elements?
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 09:01:51 -0800 (PST), bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:>On Monday, December 9, 2013 12:04:47 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> Sure. And the step response describes it all. >> > >> John Larkin Highland Technology Inc >> >> www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com >> >> >> >> Precision electronic instrumentation >> >> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators >> >> Custom timing and laser controllers >> >> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links >> >> VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer >> >> Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators > >Actually, if you want to split hairs, and since you can't have a cable without a connector, connectorization does introduce nonlinear IP products if you look down far enough. HP Journal had an article on this effect, IIRC nickel was the bad actor.Yeah, and if you apply enough power, you'll melt the copper. That's nonlinear. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On 12/9/2013 1:25 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 09:01:51 -0800 (PST), > bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Monday, December 9, 2013 12:04:47 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >> >>> >>> Sure. And the step response describes it all. >>> >> >> >> Actually, if you want to split hairs, and since you can't have a cable without a connector, connectorization does introduce nonlinear IP products if you look down far enough. HP Journal had an article on this effect, IIRC nickel was the bad actor. > > Yeah, and if you apply enough power, you'll melt the copper. That's > nonlinear. > >Nickel oxide makes tunnel junctions really easily. Unlike copper oxide, it works quite literally from DC to daylight. Cheers Phil Hobbs
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 13:41:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 12/9/2013 1:25 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 09:01:51 -0800 (PST), >> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> On Monday, December 9, 2013 12:04:47 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Sure. And the step response describes it all. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Actually, if you want to split hairs, and since you can't have a cable without a connector, connectorization does introduce nonlinear IP products if you look down far enough. HP Journal had an article on this effect, IIRC nickel was the bad actor. >> >> Yeah, and if you apply enough power, you'll melt the copper. That's >> nonlinear. >> >> > >Nickel oxide makes tunnel junctions really easily. Unlike copper oxide, >it works quite literally from DC to daylight. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThat sort of thing matters in connectors used in cell towers and such, where PIM levels like -160 dB are expected. Apparently there are magnetic effects in platings, as well as contact stuff. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
In article <aegaa9ds1ar52vjv3v0fakrjbi5qbg93ul@4ax.com>, DLU1 @DecadentLinuxUser.org says...> > On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 16:54:07 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman > <bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us: > > >I know that it's dorkish to intrude facts into a pissing > > contest, but someone who posts under a constantly changing alias > > is at a substantial disadvantage when he wants to claim to > > have been here for a long time. We did have our resident idiots > > early on, but my feeling is that you weren't one of them. > > This from an asswipe who does not even know Usenet line length > standards. > > You cannot make a valid assessment when you are one of the main > members of the class you claim to be describing. > > I was around when the majority of posts were in abse. > > And I am no idiot, Slotard. I *do* know how to use a 555 timer > correctly. And I do understand its viability. > > Probably here since late '94 or '95 on. You lose.SLow-Man is just a proxy! Jamie
Reply by ●December 9, 20132013-12-09
On Tuesday, 10 December 2013 09:22:02 UTC+11, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wro= te:> In article <aegaa9ds1ar52vjv3v0fakrjbi5qbg93ul@4ax.com>, DLU1 > @DecadentLinuxUser.org says..=20 > > On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 16:54:07 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman > > <bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:=20 > > =20 > > >I know that it's dorkish to intrude facts into a pissing contest, but =someone who posts under a constantly changing alias is at a substantial dis= advantage when he wants to claim to have been here for a long time. We did = have our resident idiots early on, but my feeling is that you weren't one o= f them.=20 <snip> =20> > Probably here since late '94 or '95 on. You lose. >=20 > SLow-Man is just a proxy!It's not a proxy I use. But then I do know how my name is spelled on my bir= th certificate and my passport, and in my publications in the peer-reviewed= literature. The Decadent Linux User and Maynard A. Philbrook Jnr. may have to work hard= er at keeping their identities organised. --=20 Bill Sloman, Sydney
