cheap usb ("thumb") drives

I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.

Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
upgrade to Windows, etc.

I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media
in lieu of the backup partition.

- Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
   (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
   encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
- How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
   of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
   or mechanical failure)

The idiot Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Subject: cheap usb ("thumb") drives
> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 12:22:09 -0700
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 11:22:23 AM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine 
> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. 
> 
> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to 
> upgrade to Windows, etc. 
> 
> I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media 
> in lieu of the backup partition. 
> 
> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution? 

The USB protocol only identifies 'mass storage device' characteristics, not
read/write permissions.   Any permission mechanism isn't standard (might
work only on one filesystem type, or one vendor's mark 3 control model...).

You'd be better off using SD card (maybe plugging an SDcard micro module
into a $0.79 USB reader), because the SD card specs DO include 
write locking by a number of mechanisms, some hardware and some software.
Also, naturally, you'd want a checksum or  hash that can be checked
against the contents of any pretender to legitimacy...

<https://www.temu.com/high-speed-usb2-0-card-reader-miniature-compact-mobile-phone-memory-card-portable-card-reader-gift-for-birthday-easter-presidents-day-boy-girlfriends-g-601099514249377.html>

On 2023-11-29, Don Y wrote:
> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.
>
> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
> upgrade to Windows, etc.

Not your problem if they trash their box, is it?

>
> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
>    (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
>    encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...

No, commodity flash drives don't tend to include "write once" features.
An ISO that they have to burn themselves is probably the most reliable
option (ref. standard Linux installation ISOs)

> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
>    of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
>    or mechanical failure)

Pretty durable.  It's the writes that wear out the flash / cause it to
fail.


-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

On 11/29/2023 5:24 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On 2023-11-29, Don Y wrote:
>> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
>> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.
>>
>> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
>> upgrade to Windows, etc.
> 
> Not your problem if they trash their box, is it?

They bring the box back to us to be "fixed".  This is why I built
the restore partition hack.  (they are underprivileged youth)

Previously, they would routinely bring their machines in loaded
with malware, porn, etc. and want us to fix it.  Technicians would
make a serious attempt to try to recover all of their "user files".

[This was a colossal waste of effort/staff.  I was able to persuade
the powers-that-be that a more automatic method would be to OUR
benefit.]

With the "reboot and select RESTORE" solution, it tells them that
their loss is THEIR loss.  Even if they bring a machine in, we
just "reboot and select RESTORE" -- very *visibly* for them to
see (i.e., you just wasted a trip to the shop cuz you didn't
walk away with anything more than you would have if you'd done
this, yourself).

A windows upgrade (attempt) hoses my restore utility so they
have an excuse to bring the machine back -- though we still
just reinstall from scratch, letting all their stuff disappear.

We would like NOT to have to spend our time doing this.  A few
bucks for a "restore thumb drive" is a small price to pay (we
will likely find someone to underwrite the cost of those).

>> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
>>     (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
>>     encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
> 
> No, commodity flash drives don't tend to include "write once" features.
> An ISO that they have to burn themselves is probably the most reliable
> option (ref. standard Linux installation ISOs)

If I knew that they would always be running the installed OS,
I could hack the VID/PID and force a bogus driver for THAT
thumb drive.  But, they could always bring the drive to a "foreign"
machine that doesn't have this hack in place and overwrite it, there.

>> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
>>     of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
>>     or mechanical failure)
> 
> Pretty durable.  It's the writes that wear out the flash / cause it to
> fail.

At least one of the "failed in R/O mode" drives mentioned above failed
before it had been completely written, *once*.  Costco replaced it
(but insisted on having the other two drives that came in the three-pack
so they could just give me a new, complete, three-pack in replacement).

I've also a few thumb drives, here, that have developed mechanical
faults -- it seems like the portion in the connector shell "breaks"
from the rest of the body (though not enough to become two pieces;
it just "bends" at that joint... enough to make an intermittent).

But, my usage likely won't mimic theirs -- esp if I can make it R/O
("Just put the thumb drive someplace for safe keeping TO SAVE *YOU*
A TRIP if you need a restore")

The idiot Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: cheap usb ("thumb") drives
> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 30
> Message-ID: <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net>
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The arsehole Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: cheap usb ("thumb") drives
> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:33:23 -0700
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 70
> Message-ID: <uk8opa$12d92$2@dont-email.me>
> References: <uk8317$v4vl$1@dont-email.me> <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net>
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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On a sunny day (Wed, 29 Nov 2023 12:22:09 -0700) it happened Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in <uk8317$v4vl$1@dont-email.me>:

>I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
>and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.
>
>Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
>upgrade to Windows, etc.
>
>I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media
>in lieu of the backup partition.
>
>- Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
>   (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
>   encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
>- How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
>   of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
>   or mechanical failure)

I bought a cheap 1 TB USB stick, it lasted a few weeks.
Opening it up I found that the PCB had pads for input protection parts
none were fitted.

OTOH I have an old 'Duracell' 16 GB USB stick that is still fine after more than 20 years daily use.

As to write protectioon, no way, one can always do a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/USBSTICK if one wants to.
Old SDcards had a mechanical switch, glue it? LOL

On 29/11/2023 19:22, Don Y wrote:
> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.
> 
> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
> upgrade to Windows, etc.
> 
> I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media
> in lieu of the backup partition.
> 
> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
>     (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
>     encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
>     of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
>     or mechanical failure)

<https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001617.htm>

If you've got something "mission critical" it might be best to avoid a 
cheap drive. If you buy a cheap 32GB drive, perhaps it's a "failed" 64GB 
drive. Is the 32GB you've got left reliable?

-- 

Jeff

In article <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net>, Dan Purgert  <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>On 2023-11-29, Don Y wrote:
>> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
>> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.
>>
>> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
>> upgrade to Windows, etc.
>
>Not your problem if they trash their box, is it?
>
>>
>> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
>>    (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
>>    encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
>
>No, commodity flash drives don't tend to include "write once" features.
>An ISO that they have to burn themselves is probably the most reliable
>option (ref. standard Linux installation ISOs)
>
>> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
>>    of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
>>    or mechanical failure)
>
>Pretty durable.  It's the writes that wear out the flash / cause it to
>fail.

I installed a backup mechanism to copy daily backups to a thumb drive.
That failed after 6 months or so. The thumb drive is no more
recognized at all to normal usb software not even as a device.

So repetitive writing is a bad idea. (The backups were instead
copied to the mount directories. So they were there.
It was the idea to have the backups on a different medium.
Now I write to a different hard drive in the same machine.)
>
>--
>|_|O|_|

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning.            - the Wise from Antrim -