On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:13:11 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:> A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>It's going to be higher than that. The MPGe is just a legacy performance measure for consumers to think in terms of the MPG they've been using all their lives. It's used to compare the various EVs and does help in making a buying decision. Other than that it's just a energy measure and doesn't have any other purpose. The average EV sold to consumers runs about 1/3 kWh per mile, or 0.333 kWh/mile. The high acceleration performance and SUV types consume twice that. USPS even managed to make a van that does 0.87 kWh/mile- that's so eco-illogical. Getting back to average consumer at 0.333 kWh/mile, coupled with their average 13,500 miles annual gets about 4500 kWh annual. EIA has statistics of average residential household energy use at 10,632 kWh annual for latest year of record 2021. Carrying that forward makes for (10,632 + 4500)/10,632=1.42 or a 42% increase in energy use at the residential level. That particular number can also be considered the total energy draw of the residential sector, regardless of where they draw it, i.e. the EV can be charged outside the home or in the home. The particulars of location are the power supplier's problem. Things can change. Better battery technology can increase the kWh/mile. Retail can consolidate sales and delivery resulting in less people on the road. Whenever this big transportation transition is supposed to occur, they better have 2X the generation capacity they have today, or there's going to be problems. Something like 80% of electrical power in U.S. is fossil fuel, so they have a long way to go.
Grid and Electric Vehicles
Started by ●September 1, 2023
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 12:10:09 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > > to the charger. > > > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > I added this comment to the video: > > > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity. > The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. > > 230 million cars (his number) > * 13,500 miles/(car year) > / 4 miles/kWh > = 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillionThey don't get 4 mi/kWh, most of the smaller, and cheaper ones people will be buying, do 3 miles /kWh. That ratio of the 3 to 4 in range rate is the same as the ratio of your results.> > Everything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum!There's so much variation in every aspect of the attempted calculation that the results can be expected to have quite a bit of variation too. There's nothing wrong with his calculations, His main failing is not realizing his estimate is low and the real numbers can vary over a 2:1 range minimum.> > How can I believe anything the guy says?YouTube is like that, a cesspool of misinformation.> > -- > > Rick C. > > -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:13:11 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:> A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>Looks like the average suburban household is 1.9 cars, call that 2. So a more realistic increase in energy consumption would be: (10,632 + 2 x 4500)/10,632=1.8. Call that 2. Most of the high population density U.S. is going to need 2X the grid capacity they have now.
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51?AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37?AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27?AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > to the charger. > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > -- > > > > Rick C. > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209> I added this comment to the video: > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity.The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. 230 million cars (his number) * 13,500 miles/(car year)/ 4 miles/kWh= 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillionEverything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum! How can I believe anything the guy says? -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209At 25% efficiency for ice, that 33.6kwh equates to 28mpg. Cheers -- ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 9:10:09 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > > to the charger. > > > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > I added this comment to the video: > > > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity. > The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. > > 230 million cars (his number) > * 13,500 miles/(car year) > / 4 miles/kWh > = 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillion > > Everything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum! > > How can I believe anything the guy says? > > -- > > Rick C. > > -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209Actually, vacuum cleaners are a pretty heavy load: https://www.galvinpower.org/how-many-amps-does-a-vacuum-use/#:~:text=The%20vacuum%20cleaner%20amp%20draw%20refers%20to%20the,the%20suction%20and%20cleaning%20ability%20of%20the%20vacuum. At 12 A that is 1440 W, not that far off of 1800 W. A 32 A L2 charger, however, draws 7.7 KW. He was looking at the average power to lower the amount. Unfortunately, the utility has to supply the 7.7 KW whenever the car is charging. Multiply that by 12-15 car owners doing the same thing. Here is just one example of the impact to a small town of 25,000, Palo Alto, CA (https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/files/assets/public/agendas-minutes-reports/agendas-minutes/utilities-advisory-commission/archived-agenda-and-minutes/agendas-and-minutes-2020/11-04-2020-special/id-11639-item-no-3.pdf). If their cost to upgrade is $75M the cost per resident is THREE MILLION DOLLARS! Multiple that by THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION: Impact to the Electric Utility The study shows that electricity demand for all-electric homes peaks on winter mornings due to heating, and averages around 3.62 kW per home, or 264% of a mixed-fuel home’s peak demand.[3] EV charging can add an additional 1.216 kW to the average peak demand of an allelectric home. Assuming each distribution transformer serves 8 houses, the load on each transformer under the all-electric SFRs scenario is calculated at 2.64 times the current transformer load plus 9.74 kW for EV charging. As shown in Table 1 below, the additional load will trigger the need to upgrade some of the distribution transformers, secondary distribution lines (which connect the distribution transformer to the homes served by the transformer), and feeder lines (which connects the substation to the distribution points). Table 1: Estimate of overcapacity equipment in the electric distribution grid under the all-electric SFRs scenario Number of over-capacity distribution transformers 759 - 773 (95+%) Number of over-capacity secondary distribution lines 162 – 155 (20%) Number of over-capacity feeders 17 (25%) The total cost to upgrade the distribution system grid is estimated to range between $30 million and $75 million. Around 40% of this cost is equipment cost, and 60% is labor cost. This covers the cost to upgrade 95% of the distribution transformers, 20% of the secondary distribution lines, and 25% of the feeder lines. The cost estimate does not include additional undergrounding of feeder lines or secondary distribution lines. If financed over 30 years at an interest rate of 3.2%, this would be approximately $1.6 million to $3.9 million per year. For comparison, the Electric Utility Capital Improvement Program (CIP) spending between FY 2021 and FY 2025 ranges between $11 million and $26 million per year. [3] CPAU currently has a summer system peak of around 170 MW and a winter system peak of around 135 MW. The electrification of all SFRs will create an additional 8 -10% load to the summer system peak which occurs between 4pm to 6pm.
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:13:11 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > It's going to be higher than that. The MPGe is just a legacy performance measure for consumers to think in terms of the MPG they've been using all their lives. It's used to compare the various EVs and does help in making a buying decision. Other than that it's just a energy measure and doesn't have any other purpose. > > The average EV sold to consumers runs about 1/3 kWh per mile, or 0.333 kWh/mile.That's a number plucked from air. I guess you can always find a way to calculate an "average" that will give you all sorts of numbers. But, my model X, which is the EV equivalent of a Buick, gets 3 to 4 miles per kWh (0.25 to 0.33 kWh per mile).> The high acceleration performance and SUV types consume twice that. USPS even managed to make a van that does 0.87 kWh/mile- that's so eco-illogical.LOL It's a hell of a lot better than 8 miles per gallon!> Getting back to average consumer at 0.333 kWh/mile, coupled with their average 13,500 miles annual gets about 4500 kWh annual. EIA has statistics of average residential household energy use at 10,632 kWh annual for latest year of record 2021. Carrying that forward makes for (10,632 + 4500)/10,632=1.42 or a 42% increase in energy use at the residential level. That particular number can also be considered the total energy draw of the residential sector, regardless of where they draw it, i.e. the EV can be charged outside the home or in the home. The particulars of location are the power supplier's problem.There's no shortage of bogus numbers to be calculated.> Things can change. Better battery technology can increase the kWh/mile. Retail can consolidate sales and delivery resulting in less people on the road.The efficiency of EVs is already very, very good. There is precious little wasted energy in EVs, so not a good place to look for improvement in efficiency.> Whenever this big transportation transition is supposed to occur, they better have 2X the generation capacity they have today, or there's going to be problems. > > Something like 80% of electrical power in U.S. is fossil fuel, so they have a long way to go.God! That is an amazing number!!! 20% is nuclear, leaving zero for wind, solar, hydro, etc. Maybe we are running at greater than 100%? -- Rick C. +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, 1 September 2023 at 17:41:22 UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 9:10:09 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote: > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > > > to the charger. > > > > > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > I added this comment to the video: > > > > > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity. > > The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. > > > > 230 million cars (his number) > > * 13,500 miles/(car year) > > / 4 miles/kWh > > = 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillion > > > > Everything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum! > > > > How can I believe anything the guy says? > > > > -- > > > > Rick C. > > > > -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > Actually, vacuum cleaners are a pretty heavy load: > https://www.galvinpower.org/how-many-amps-does-a-vacuum-use/#:~:text=The%20vacuum%20cleaner%20amp%20draw%20refers%20to%20the,the%20suction%20and%20cleaning%20ability%20of%20the%20vacuum. > At 12 A that is 1440 W, not that far off of 1800 W. A 32 A L2 charger, however, draws 7.7 KW. He was looking at the average power to lower the amount. Unfortunately, the utility has to supply the 7.7 KW whenever the car is charging. Multiply that by 12-15 car owners doing the same thing. Here is just one example of the impact to a small town of 25,000, Palo Alto, CA (https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/files/assets/public/agendas-minutes-reports/agendas-minutes/utilities-advisory-commission/archived-agenda-and-minutes/agendas-and-minutes-2020/11-04-2020-special/id-11639-item-no-3.pdf). If their cost to upgrade is $75M the cost per resident is THREE MILLION DOLLARS! Multiple that by THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION: > > Impact to the Electric Utility > The study shows that electricity demand for all-electric homes peaks on winter mornings due to > heating, and averages around 3.62 kW per home, or 264% of a mixed-fuel home’s peak > demand.[3] EV charging can add an additional 1.216 kW to the average peak demand of an allelectric home. Assuming each distribution transformer serves 8 houses, the load on each > transformer under the all-electric SFRs scenario is calculated at 2.64 times the current > transformer load plus 9.74 kW for EV charging. As shown in Table 1 below, the additional load > will trigger the need to upgrade some of the distribution transformers, secondary distribution > lines (which connect the distribution transformer to the homes served by the transformer), and > feeder lines (which connects the substation to the distribution points). > > Table 1: Estimate of overcapacity equipment in the electric distribution grid under the all-electric SFRs scenario > Number of over-capacity distribution transformers 759 - 773 (95+%) > Number of over-capacity secondary distribution lines 162 – 155 (20%) > Number of over-capacity feeders 17 (25%) > > The total cost to upgrade the distribution system grid is estimated to range between $30 > million and $75 million. Around 40% of this cost is equipment cost, and 60% is labor cost. This > covers the cost to upgrade 95% of the distribution transformers, 20% of the secondary > distribution lines, and 25% of the feeder lines. The cost estimate does not include additional > undergrounding of feeder lines or secondary distribution lines. If financed over 30 years at an > interest rate of 3.2%, this would be approximately $1.6 million to $3.9 million per year. For > comparison, the Electric Utility Capital Improvement Program (CIP) spending between FY 2021 > and FY 2025 ranges between $11 million and $26 million per year. > > [3] CPAU currently has a summer system peak of around 170 MW and a winter system peak of around 135 MW. The > electrification of all SFRs will create an additional 8 -10% load to the summer system peak which occurs between > 4pm to 6pm.According to section 2.9 it would cost between $1,981 and $4,972 per single family residence (SFR) to upgrade (not $3 million). Each SFR presumably houses on average more than one person.
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 2:37:26 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 12:10:09 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote: > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > > > to the charger. > > > > > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > I added this comment to the video: > > > > > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity. > > The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. > > > > 230 million cars (his number) > > * 13,500 miles/(car year) > > / 4 miles/kWh > > = 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillion > They don't get 4 mi/kWh, most of the smaller, and cheaper ones people will be buying, do 3 miles /kWh. That ratio of the 3 to 4 in range rate is the same as the ratio of your results."They"??? I'm talking about the numbers from my bucket of volts, which I check on a regular basis. The Tesla model 3 and Y (more conventional sizes of cars) get 4 mi/kWh regularly and up to 5 mi/kWh. My electron guzzler gets more like 2.5 to 3 mi/kWh. You can be in denial as much as you like, but these are facts.> > Everything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum! > There's so much variation in every aspect of the attempted calculation that the results can be expected to have quite a bit of variation too. There's nothing wrong with his calculations, His main failing is not realizing his estimate is low and the real numbers can vary over a 2:1 range minimum. > > > > How can I believe anything the guy says? > YouTube is like that, a cesspool of misinformation.Much like sed. -- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:10:37 PM UTC-4, Martin Rid wrote:> Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51?AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37?AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27?AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > to the charger. > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > -- > > > > Rick C. > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209> I added this comment to the video: > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity.The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. 230 million cars (his number) * 13,500 miles/(car year)/ 4 miles/kWh= 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillionEverything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum! How can I believe anything the guy says? -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > At 25% efficiency for ice, that 33.6kwh equates to 28mpg.What is your point? -- Rick C. --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 1, 20232023-09-01
On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 9:16:52 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 2:37:26 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 12:10:09 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote: > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > > > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: > > > > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > > > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. > > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> > > > > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as > > > > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only > > > > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" > > > > > > to the charger. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been > > > > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) > > > > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed > > > > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") > > > > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? > > > > > > > > > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > > > > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > > I added this comment to the video: > > > > > > > > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity. > > > The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. > > > > > > 230 million cars (his number) > > > * 13,500 miles/(car year) > > > / 4 miles/kWh > > > = 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillion > > They don't get 4 mi/kWh, most of the smaller, and cheaper ones people will be buying, do 3 miles /kWh. That ratio of the 3 to 4 in range rate is the same as the ratio of your results. > "They"??? I'm talking about the numbers from my bucket of volts, which I check on a regular basis. The Tesla model 3 and Y (more conventional sizes of cars) get 4 mi/kWh regularly and up to 5 mi/kWh. My electron guzzler gets more like 2.5 to 3 mi/kWh. > > You can be in denial as much as you like, but these are facts. > > > Everything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner. That has got to be one monster vacuum! > > There's so much variation in every aspect of the attempted calculation that the results can be expected to have quite a bit of variation too. There's nothing wrong with his calculations, His main failing is not realizing his estimate is low and the real numbers can vary over a 2:1 range minimum. > > > > > > How can I believe anything the guy says? > > YouTube is like that, a cesspool of misinformation. > Much like sed. > > -- > > Rick C. > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209I see I posted inconsistent numbers. I sometimes get them mixed up because of the reciprocal values some people use, mi/kWh vs. Wh/mi. My model X generally gets 3 mi/kWh sometimes getting as low as 2.5 mi/kWh, and less often close to 4 mi/kWh (much less often). Mostly this depends on the roads traveled. 50-55 mph roads give the best mileage, although stop and go traffic actually gives the best. Weird, huh? Just goes to show how EVs are different from ICE. -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
