Grid and Electric Vehicles

A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S.   One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day.  The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs.  He didn't mention trucks.  
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:13:11 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>

I'm not a fan of watching videos for information.  Care to give an overview of what I might find?  

Talking about running a vacuum cleaner for 24 hours a day is not a particularly useful reference point.  I don't know how much power a vacuum cleaner uses.  

The 30% higher load number is also not very useful, because the important part of the added load is timing.  The average auto is driven around 40 miles a day, which is around 10 kWh.  I get my charge from a 120V, 15A outlet.  That would be around 10 hours each night.  That's a more relevant description for people who don't have EVs.  People who do have EVs don't need to be educated. 

-- 

  Rick C.

  - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
  - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:13:11 PM UTC+10, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>

The 30% extra load on the grid is apparently worked out from current gasoline sales so it presumably includes trucks. It has been coming up for years so it is probably reliable.

The US grid went up from 355 billion kiloWatt.hours in 1950 to 3801 in 2000, about 5% per year, so 30% is about six years of that kind of growth. It's going  to take longer than that to move everybody over to electric vehicles, so it's not something to get excited about.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:36:20 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:13:11 PM UTC+10, Dean Hoffman wrote: 
> > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>
> The 30% extra load on the grid is apparently worked out from current gasoline sales so it presumably includes trucks. It has been coming up for years so it is probably reliable. 
> 
> The US grid went up from 355 billion kiloWatt.hours in 1950 to 3801 in 2000, about 5% per year, so 30% is about six years of that kind of growth. It's going to take longer than that to move everybody over to electric vehicles, so it's not something to get excited about. 
> 
> -- 
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

      The narrator used a bit over 13,000 miles per year for his starting point.   I've been seeing articles claiming something like 25% of the U.S. workforce will be work from home so that should  help. 

On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S.   One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day.  The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs.  He didn't mention trucks.
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>

But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as
you likely drive it to work, errands, etc.  It's only
when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it"
to the charger.

So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been
off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.)
and have to complete the recharge before you next needed
the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?")

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 7:49:39 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:36:20 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote: 
> > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:13:11 PM UTC+10, Dean Hoffman wrote: 
> > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> 
> > The 30% extra load on the grid is apparently worked out from current gasoline sales so it presumably includes trucks. It has been coming up for years so it is probably reliable. 
> > 
> > The US grid went up from 355 billion kiloWatt.hours in 1950 to 3801 in 2000, about 5% per year, so 30% is about six years of that kind of growth. It's going to take longer than that to move everybody over to electric vehicles, so it's not something to get excited about. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bill Sloman, Sydney
> The narrator used a bit over 13,000 miles per year for his starting point. I've been seeing articles claiming something like 25% of the U.S. workforce will be work from home so that should help.

I think the work from home number is dropping.  Companies didn't have much choice during the pandemic, but they are backing away from the telecommute thing now. 

-- 

  Rick C.

  + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
  + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: 
> > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained>
> But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as 
> you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only 
> when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" 
> to the charger. 
> 
> So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been 
> off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) 
> and have to complete the recharge before you next needed 
> the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?")

What are you trying to say?  Why not just come out and say it?  

It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. 

-- 

  Rick C.

  -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
  -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: 
> > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: 
> > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> 
> > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as 
> > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only 
> > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" 
> > to the charger. 
> > 
> > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been 
> > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) 
> > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed 
> > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?")
> What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? 
> 
> It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C. 
> 
> -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
> -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

I added this comment to the video:

You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity.

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: 
> > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: 
> > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: 
> > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> 
> > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as 
> > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only 
> > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" 
> > > to the charger. 
> > > 
> > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been 
> > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) 
> > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed 
> > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") 
> > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? 
> > 
> > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Rick C. 
> > 
> > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
> > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> I added this comment to the video: 
> 
> You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity.

The first calculation this guy does is wrong.  He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year.  But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars.  Here's how you do the actual calculation. 

230 million cars (his number) 
* 13,500 miles/(car year)
/ 4 miles/kWh
= 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillion

Everything I see in his video is similar, using a poor numerical basis and then making gross errors like saying drawing 1,800 W is the same as running a vacuum cleaner.  That has got to be one monster vacuum!  

How can I believe anything the guy says? 

-- 

  Rick C.

  -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
  -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 9:10:09 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 11:37:51 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote: 
> > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 6:17:37 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: 
> > > On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:19:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote: 
> > > > On 9/1/2023 3:13 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: 
> > > > > A roughly 16 minute video on the added load of using EVs instead of fossil fueled vehicles in the U.S. One comment is the load at home would be about like running a vacuum cleaner 24 hours per day. The guy is talking about a 30% higher load if all cars are EVs. He didn't mention trucks. 
> > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained> 
> > > > But you don't leave your car on a charger for 24 hours as 
> > > > you likely drive it to work, errands, etc. It's only 
> > > > when you are *done* using it that you'd "retire it" 
> > > > to the charger. 
> > > > 
> > > > So, you'd be home, using electrical loads that would have been 
> > > > off while you were at work (TVs, stove, lighting, HVAC, etc.) 
> > > > and have to complete the recharge before you next needed 
> > > > the vehicle ("Am I *in* for the evening?") 
> > > What are you trying to say? Why not just come out and say it? 
> > > 
> > > It's always the ones who don't have an EV who don't understand them or how they charge. 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 
> > > Rick C. 
> > > 
> > > -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
> > > -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 
> > I added this comment to the video: 
> > 
> > You ignore the fact that the Woke crowd is hell-bent on shutting down ALL fossil-fueled power plants. Solar and wind can't replace this production because they are unreliable and require huge amounts of land. Also, it is not just that they want us to switch our cars to electric, they want ALL of our energy use to be electric: no gas furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, stoves, ovens, etc. This WILL impact the peak usage of electricity.
> The first calculation this guy does is wrong. He uses some silly figure (33.7 kWh/gallon of gas) to calculate the total amount of energy needed to power all passenger cars in a year. But that's the wrong calculation and the 33.7 kWh is the total energy in the gasoline, taking into account none of the efficiency issues of gas cars. Here's how you do the actual calculation. 
> 
> 230 million cars (his number) 
> * 13,500 miles/(car year) 
> / 4 miles/kWh 
> = 0.776 trillion kWh/ year, not 1.2 trillion 

You can just use his numbers and divide by 4.5, since ICEs are around 20% to 30% efficient.  So, we got around 300 billion KWhr/yr.