Spoke sensor for bicycle

On 6/15/2022 10:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
>> ......
>>
>> I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
>> little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc.  Just a couple of
>> miles, likely off-road.
>>
>> Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind.  But, none
>> have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
>> on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).
> 
> I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)

Yeah, that would work.  Often, I'm not carrying anything more than
something that needs to be mailed (at the post office) or returned
(to the library).  So, getting my body mass from here to there is
the bigger issue.

[I'm not afraid of the exercise but the time required can be
annoying.  E.g., at 4MPH, it takes me a little over an hour
to do the 4.5mi round trip to the library (using shortcuts
accessible to a pedestrian).  OTOH, driving that same distance
takes almost half an hour as the route is slightly longer,
there are traffic signals to contend with, the car has to be
parked and locked up, etc.  So, I "discount" the time spent
walking by the time it would take by car and figure I got
an extra half hour of exercise "for free" -- in terms of
time expended]

> shops. And the way back is uphill (not dramatic though).

The trip to the library is a long SLOW climb.  My pace *going* is
a fair bit slower than returning (despite the fact that I'm more
tired on the return trip).

I've also noticed this within the neighborhood; traveling in
one direction requires more exertion than the other.  The differences
in elevation aren't big but they take a toll on progress.

> If it is
> reasonably flat in your area you will just need a backpack similar
> to mine - Lucy gave it to me when I got the bike, she had used it
> years ago when she was walking up the mountains. Very light but
> strong enough.

My purchases are usually tied to a trip that had some other goal.
E.g., stopping in at the grocery store adjacent to the post
office for a few small items.  Or, the hardware store on the
way BACK from the post office.  Ditto at the library.  I'd
not be inclined to buy anything heavy or bulky -- or *frozen*
(as it would *thaw* on the trip).

On a bicycle, I've carried the (one) bag in my hand while
also piloting the bike.  It's not that difficult.  But, avoiding
traffic is a challenge (pedestrian and cyclist "accidents" are
fairly common, here.  Often fatal -- though rarely for the driver
of the CAR!  :-/ )

>> But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
>> tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
>> This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
>> ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
>> the chair.  (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)
>>
>> Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway?  <grin> >
> 
> I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
> motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
> to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
> (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
> would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

I think the motor will propel you but doesn't have enough torque to
get you moving from a dead stop (?).  We also have a lot of gas-powered
bicycle assist units in use, here as a cheap form of transportation for
folks who don't want the cost/inconvenience of a car (e.g., students).
There is no licensing requirement nor requirement for insurance as
there is with a car.

But, they need to be driven on roadways.  So, the marginally safer
use of sidewalks is out of the question.  And, in many places, there
are no sidewalks so you're riding in the ~3 ft shoulder of the roadway.
(having cars pass within feet of you at 50 MPH is a disconcerting
feeling!  "I wonder if the next guy has his eyes on the road -- or
on his phone???")

[Folks who ride recumbant bikes often have a tall "flag" attached
tot he bike frame to increase visibility.  I'm not sure I'd rely on
that as a protective measure!  :< ]

Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 14/06/2022 18:09, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> 
> <snipped>
>>
>> Hmmm, but will that work at really low speed (like when pushing the
>> bike uphill)? It is an idea to do it this way (I did not even know the
>> name of the method so the idea is more than welcome), yet what I was
>> thinking was more in the line of changing some oscillation frequency
>> (thus detecting the spokes also&nbsp; "at DC").
> 
> A former colleague used a clever method for an impeller type flow 
> sensor.&nbsp; He used a small unshielded inductor with a parallel capacitor 
> connected to a PIC pin.&nbsp; Set the pin to be an output, kick the LC with a 
> pulse, then set the pin to be an input and count oscillations.&nbsp; In air, 
> you get a few counts, near metal, you get fewer counts.&nbsp; I don't know 
> details, but he was able to sample sufficiently quickly for it to work.
> 
> My guess is that it wouldn't be practical over the clearance distance 
> you'd need for a spoke, but it's a neat method.
> 

A digital theremin!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
>> Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It
>> seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.
>>
>> Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle
>> cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
>> as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.
>
> GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
> actual distance traveled.  Even a beginner is taught to always
> reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
> measurement errors).

FWIW, my bicycle is not electric. (Apparently some or all of those 15
cadence sensors cited by me earlier pertain to electric bicycles??) The 
whole idea behind my spins is to get a good workout.

People sometimes ask me about my bicycle's fat tires. The tires are 
fatter than those found on small motorcycles. They help me navigate
through light, dry snow. Fat tires are also ideal to yield three feet 
over on the gravelly shoulder of the paved highway through the foothills
when a big pickup truck with extra wide mirrors screams past. If you 
look closely at the left handlebar of my bike, you can spot a rear-view 
mirror to keep me situationally aware of things going on behind my back.  

My bike needs rear taillights and turn indicators more than a cadence 
counter. The bike's NiteRider headlight battery ought to provide plenty
of juice as-is. But the rear lights will probably end up as DIY for lack
of any viable alternatives.

Danke,

-- 
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On 6/15/2022 11:04 AM, Don wrote:
> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
>>> Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It
>>> seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.
>>>
>>> Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle
>>> cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
>>> as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.
>>
>> GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
>> actual distance traveled.  Even a beginner is taught to always
>> reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
>> measurement errors).
> 
> FWIW, my bicycle is not electric. (Apparently some or all of those 15
> cadence sensors cited by me earlier pertain to electric bicycles??) The
> whole idea behind my spins is to get a good workout.

I'm looking for options when I *don't* want a workout.  There's a
difference between "going out for some chores" and "going out
for some execise".  The former has a (immediate) purpose while the
latter's purpose is more long term.

> People sometimes ask me about my bicycle's fat tires. The tires are
> fatter than those found on small motorcycles. They help me navigate
> through light, dry snow. Fat tires are also ideal to yield three feet
> over on the gravelly shoulder of the paved highway through the foothills
> when a big pickup truck with extra wide mirrors screams past. If you
> look closely at the left handlebar of my bike, you can spot a rear-view
> mirror to keep me situationally aware of things going on behind my back.

Yes, my wheelchair's drive wheels are good enough for packed dirt
and firm lawns (and asphalt, concrete, etc.).  But, tend to "spin"
in the decomposed granite that is common in place of lawns, here.

I'll mount more aggressive wheels if I take this approach:

<https://www.grizzlycentral.com/attachments/img_20161231_145627-jpg.42386/>

(Disabled) Folks who really go into this sort of thing can get
really aggressive in their solutions:

<https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b1/c4/b9/b1c4b9ede3aeeee5e134762c980db6d0.jpg>

<http://www.automotivenews.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/10497961_526645007463753_6858744401557386684_o.jpg>

<https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/suncommercial.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/fb/bfbbc882-a630-11e3-ba40-0019bb2963f4/531a21b2150ce.image.jpg?resize=400%2C240>

But, they are truly looking for ATV-style solutions to ATV-style
problems.  I'm just looking for a non-driving, non-walking way
to cover reasonably short distances (I'd never rely on walking
OR this sort of kludge if I wanted to travel a dozen miles)

> My bike needs rear taillights and turn indicators more than a cadence
> counter. The bike's NiteRider headlight battery ought to provide plenty
> of juice as-is. But the rear lights will probably end up as DIY for lack
> of any viable alternatives.

My wheelchair already has headlights, tail lights and turn signals.
And a horn!  :-/

And (I think) a BT tie-in for "remote control".  Battery isn't a problem
as there's ~100 pounds of them under the seat!

On 06/15/2022 09:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
>
> Bikes won't work well as I'd want to be able to take the "shortcuts"
> over dirt/gravel/grass.  Something more "ATV-ish" is called for.
> Hence the Segway option.  (The Segway "egg" looks do-able)

https://www.montaguebikes.com/product/paratrooper/

Any mountain bike will be at home off the pavement. I've got a Montague 
because I wanted a full-sized folding bike I can put in the back of the 
Yaris. Bike racks and hatchbacks don't play well together.

> I also have to be wary of the laws regarding where you can operate
> said "conveyance".  E.g., I don't think bicycles are allowed on sidewalks.
> And, the rules for ebikes might be different.

I don't think sidewalk riding is illegal here but I wonder about the 
people who ride on sidewalks or the shoulder of the road when there's a 
perfectly good bike path six feet away.

Ebikes are up in the air. They're banned on quite a few trails but 
there's no blanket prohibition. There's an attempt to distinguish 
between electric assist and outright electric drive.

> Years ago, I tried the bike approach.  Driving on the roads is just too
> perilous.  Having to cross 4 lanes of 45+MPH traffic several times on each
> "short trip" left my nerves jangled.

Forty tears ago I'd ride on Boston streets. Over the years I gotten much 
more paranoid. I gave up a favorite route because it's a narrow two lane 
road with no shoulder. The fog line is the edge of the pavement and 
there's only a ditch past it. Most people are good but it is frequented 
by F350 dualies pulling stock trailers.

The other route is on a very wide shoulder for about three miles and 
then a bike/pedestrian path.

On 06/15/2022 09:42 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>    Somehow I associate those with the Sturmey-Archer
>> three speed hubs.
> A blast from the past.  I got very good at adjusting and repairing
> them.
>
> It took me a year to figure out why, when pedaling strongly the foot
> crank would abruptly come loose, free-rotate a half-turn or so, and
> then reconnect, as if nothing had happened.

I was very please when I moved from a balloon tire coaster brake model 
to my first 'English' bicycle. I bought it used and abused with my 8th 
grade graduation presents. I learned quite a bit about springs, cogs, 
pins, and the other internals.

After that experience there was close to a 20 year gap before I bought a 
10 speed. Derailleurs have their moments but nothing like a SA.

> I recall similar things from the 1960s as well.  Was never tempted.  I
> bet they sounded like an infuriated bumblebee, only higher pitched.
> And LOUD.


I was tempted but moved on to a real motorcycle, a '55 panhead. It was 
loud but not to be mistaken for a bumblebee.

On 06/15/2022 10:24 AM, Don wrote:
> My own mountain cycling takes place year around. Throughout the winter:
>
> <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/winter.png>

Do you run studs?

On 06/15/2022 12:04 PM, Don wrote:
> People sometimes ask me about my bicycle's fat tires. The tires are
> fatter than those found on small motorcycles. They help me navigate
> through light, dry snow. Fat tires are also ideal to yield three feet
> over on the gravelly shoulder of the paved highway through the foothills
> when a big pickup truck with extra wide mirrors screams past. If you
> look closely at the left handlebar of my bike, you can spot a rear-view
> mirror to keep me situationally aware of things going on behind my back.

They must be a joy to pedal. Some I've seen are actually bigger than the 
front tire on my DR650 and that has a 650cc thumper to do the pedaling.

Definite yes on the rear view. I have one bike without a mirror and I 
keep glancing at the hole where it's supposed to be. I've never come to 
terms with those mirrors mounted on your glasses.

On 06/15/2022 11:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
>> ......
>>
>> I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
>> little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc.  Just a couple of
>> miles, likely off-road.
>>
>> Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind.  But, none
>> have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
>> on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).
>
> I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)
> shops. And the way back is uphill (not dramatic though). If it is
> reasonably flat in your area you will just need a backpack similar
> to mine - Lucy gave it to me when I got the bike, she had used it
> years ago when she was walking up the mountains. Very light but
> strong enough.
>
>>
>> But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
>> tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
>> This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
>> ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
>> the chair.  (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)
>>
>> Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway?  <grin> >
>
> I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
> motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
> to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
> (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
> would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

Some do not require any pedaling. Locally they're trying to find a way 
to legally differentiate between the two.

On 06/15/2022 11:41 AM, Don Y wrote:
> n 6/15/2022 10:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>> On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
>>> ......
>>>
>>> I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
>>> little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc.  Just a couple of
>>> miles, likely off-road.
>>>
>>> Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind.  But, none
>>> have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
>>> on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).
>>
>> I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)
>
> Yeah, that would work.  Often, I'm not carrying anything more than
> something that needs to be mailed (at the post office) or returned
> (to the library).  So, getting my body mass from here to there is
> the bigger issue.

I tacoed a wheel while carry groceries in a backpack. Not a good idea, 
getting slammed with a few cans of tunafish.