In article <17028e82e5d5a448$1$1440173$68dd626a@news.thecubenet.com>,
Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> wrote:
>On 12/7/22 14:43, rbowman wrote:
>> On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>> in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above
>>> 25km/h (~16mph)
>>> you can get one from ~800€ and up
>> The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w
>> nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.
>
>Bafang have a 750W crank-mount motor, and a 1000W one. If they're
>efficient enough they don't have to dissipate much of that, of course.
>
>They can be road-legal if the controller limits the output to 250W.
>You might need to prove that however, especially if the bike can unlock
>full power for off-road use.
Remember there are also electric powered scooter and bikes, that
are considered motor vehicles, and fall under the same regulations
as gas powered, e.g. registration and insurance.
Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
Reply by Clifford Heath●July 17, 20222022-07-17
On 12/7/22 14:43, rbowman wrote:
> On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>> in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above
>> 25km/h (~16mph)
>> you can get one from ~800€ and up
> The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w
> nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.
Bafang have a 750W crank-mount motor, and a 1000W one. If they're
efficient enough they don't have to dissipate much of that, of course.
They can be road-legal if the controller limits the output to 250W.
You might need to prove that however, especially if the bike can unlock
full power for off-road use.
Reply by none●July 14, 20222022-07-14
In article <jj2rvjFtmn4U1@mid.individual.net>,
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:
>> In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
>>> motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
>>> to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
>>> (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
>>> would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.
>>
>> Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
>> In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
>> by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
>> They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
>> At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).
>>
>> Groetjes Albert
>>
>
>Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
>to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his '60s that was
>very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the
>disadvantages. Since they're a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
>The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
>angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
>do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.
New electric bikes start well under 1000 euro's, second hand still less.
The batteries are a concern, but one will live with that.
Stolen bicycles is a concern, but there are electronic ways to counter
that.
Concerning spoke detectors.
If the material is stainless, the conclusion that it has no
magnetic properties is not warranted. Check with a magnet.
My 30 year old race bike has stainless spokes, but they are magnetic.
Yesterday I walked home from my restaurant,
inspecting 200 bicycles. From those approximately half
have galvanised spokes. No need to inspect those, they are magnetic.
From the other bikes there were few we expected to have non magnetic
spokes.
I suspected especially those that are black and thin.
These are not carbon fiber,
but they are slightly magnetic, sufficiently to detect I guess.
The bottom line suggests that the news is good if you want to market a
device that works on spokes. However I found something strange.
My friend has magnetic spokes front, non-magnetic at the rear.
Another friend has slightly magnetic spokes... in the even positions
right and non-magnetics spokes in the odd positions.
Apparently there are batches of spokes and they switch in the middle
of spoking a wheel, and the magnetic properties are apparently of
no concern.
Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
Reply by Lasse Langwadt Christensen●July 12, 20222022-07-12
tirsdag den 12. juli 2022 kl. 06.44.05 UTC+2 skrev rbowman:
> On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> > in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above 25km/h (~16mph)
> > you can get one from ~800€ and up
> The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w
> nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.
unless it is type approved, max 250W, no aid above 25km/h it is not legal on public roads
if stopped by police you'll get a fine, possibly confiscated the bike and in an accident you'll
have problems with insurance
Reply by rbowman●July 12, 20222022-07-12
On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above 25km/h (~16mph)
> you can get one from ~800€ and up
The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w
nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.
There was a flood of Chinese scooters for a while, some claiming 150cc's
which it turned out was the oil volume. It was actually a 50cc engine.
> here there also a trail with the so called "speed pedelec", they are more like a moped.
> max speed 45km/h it needs to be registered and have insurance and you have to
> wear a helmet and have a moped or car license
Some trails here have signs posted banning any ebikes but they are
traditional mountain bike trails, not the paved multiuse trails in town.
I have a couple of pedal powered bicycles, and three motorcycles so I'm
not anti-bike but I'm not comfortable sharing a pedal bike / pedestrian
trail with something capable of 45 km/h. They would be better suited
for city streets with bike lanes where they could keep up with traffic
in many cases.
Reply by Lasse Langwadt Christensen●July 11, 20222022-07-11
mandag den 11. juli 2022 kl. 16.55.54 UTC+2 skrev rbowman:
> On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:
> > In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
> > <SNIP>
> >>
> >> I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
> >> motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
> >> to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
> >> (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
> >> would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.
> >
> > Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
> > In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
> > by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
> > They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
> > At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).
> >
> > Groetjes Albert
> >
> Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
> to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his '60s that was
> very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the
> disadvantages. Since they're a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
> The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
> angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
> do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.
>
> He'd had knee problems and hadn't ridden a bicycle in 30 years. Between
> that and the higher center of gravity he'd fallen twice. He did a survey
> of the ebike forums and found that was common. My thought was they may
> attract people who have little experience on two wheels. That's
> concerning since they seem to fall into two categories, 20 mph motors
> with more torque and 27 mph motors wound for a little less torque but
> more speed.
in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above 25km/h (~16mph)
you can get one from ~800€ and up
here there also a trail with the so called "speed pedelec", they are more like a moped.
max speed 45km/h it needs to be registered and have insurance and you have to
wear a helmet and have a moped or car license
Reply by rbowman●July 11, 20222022-07-11
On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:
> In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
>> motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
>> to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
>> (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
>> would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.
>
> Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
> In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
> by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
> They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
> At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).
>
> Groetjes Albert
>
Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his '60s that was
very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the
disadvantages. Since they're a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.
He'd had knee problems and hadn't ridden a bicycle in 30 years. Between
that and the higher center of gravity he'd fallen twice. He did a survey
of the ebike forums and found that was common. My thought was they may
attract people who have little experience on two wheels. That's
concerning since they seem to fall into two categories, 20 mph motors
with more torque and 27 mph motors wound for a little less torque but
more speed.
Reply by none●July 11, 20222022-07-11
In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
>motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
>to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
>(making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
>would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.
Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).
Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
Reply by Fred Bloggs●June 27, 20222022-06-27
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 11:51:30 AM UTC-4, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
> I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
> And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
> I have been thinking of making my own.
> Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
> While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
> about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
> the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
> of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
> pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
> but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
> imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.
>
> I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
> the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
> I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
> sensors than I have.
You're talking about devices that sell on Aliexpress for $1.29.
If you're a halfway serious cyclist, there are computers that measure cadence, pedal rotations per minute, again with a magnet attached to the pedals, in addition to the usual RPM/ speed and total distance. Looks like the reed relays have been abandoned in favor of hall effect or the giant magntoresistance technology, dunno which. The packages are way too flat to house a relay. The little magnets and their housing look unchanged from the reed relay days.
Plotting the actual route has always been a big deal for road cyclists, so I imagine GPS is used for that in the high end units- but they still need magnets and sensors for cadence measurement, and probably a backup for wheel RPM.
The so-called industrial designers look first at the kind of functionality and form the prospective users will most likely want, and only then hand the design off to nuts and bolts people capable of making a physical product.
You'll be hard pressed to improve upon or innovate existing products.
> On 15/06/2022 07:52, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
>> <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in
>> <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:
>>>
>>> .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>
>>>
>>> .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>
>>>
>>> But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be
>>> solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
>>> brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
>>> adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
>>> rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>> Just thinking, use a camera looking down
>> The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
>> Almost like a computah mouse...
>
> Forty years or so ago I was doing some work for either Austin Rover or
> British Leyland, can't remember which world-leading high-quality British
> car manufacturer, there were so many.
>
> Anyway, a test car they used had something like that - an optical device
> looking at the road to accurately measure speed. IIRC it was very
> expensive.
>
> I have a feeling it was something to do with diffraction gratings and
> prisms.
>
There's a fun effect that's sometimes used in sensors for things like
paper handlers: if you shine a laser on a rough surface, the speckle
pattern moves exactly twice as fast as the surface. This turns out to
be a fairly deep consequence of the law of reflection.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.nethttp://hobbs-eo.com