Model train electronics

On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get 
>"dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides 
>deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and 
>microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>
>So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing 
>(if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too 
>much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the 
>rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, 
>I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>
>Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through 
>some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process 
>described.

Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?

(I expect that few women do.)

-- 

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, 
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

In article <12nprgt18gm5fjb1ucuet8j6uf3mvr8cbc@4ax.com>, 
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com says...
> 
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
> 
> >The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get 
> >"dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides 
> >deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and 
> >microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> >
> >So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing 
> >(if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too 
> >much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the 
> >rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, 
> >I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> >
> >Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through 
> >some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process 
> >described.
> 
> Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
> 
> (I expect that few women do.)

Is that supposed to be a hard question? Because playing with full-size 
ones is too resource-heavy...

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>>The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get 
>>"dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides 
>>deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and 
>>microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>>
>>So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing 
>>(if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too 
>>much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the 
>>rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, 
>>I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>>
>>Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through 
>>some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process 
>>described.
>
>Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?

It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the
size of peppercorns?

(I outgrew trains, and gave what remained to my nephew, who didn't
stay interested all that long.)


>(I expect that few women do.)

I bet there is at least one unsuspecting girl who inherited her
father's passion for model trains.

I've seen lots of youtube videos of young women running metal working
lathes, and clearly know what they are doing - probably grew up with
it, often on a farm.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:29:32 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get 
>>>"dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides 
>>>deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and 
>>>microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>>>
>>>So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing 
>>>(if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too 
>>>much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the 
>>>rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, 
>>>I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>>>
>>>Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through 
>>>some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process 
>>>described.
>>
>>Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
>
>It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the
>size of peppercorns?

Designing electronics is continuously interesting, and makes money as
opposed to spending it.

The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
the whole point?

We wouldn't have enough room anyhow.

>
>(I outgrew trains, and gave what remained to my nephew, who didn't
>stay interested all that long.)

I had a train set as a kid, but mostly took them apart.

>
>
>>(I expect that few women do.)
>
>I bet there is at least one unsuspecting girl who inherited her
>father's passion for model trains.
>
>I've seen lots of youtube videos of young women running metal working
>lathes, and clearly know what they are doing - probably grew up with
>it, often on a farm.

One extremely expensive private high school near here has mandatory
courses in electronics and welding.

-- 

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, 
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>>The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get 
>>"dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides 
>>deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and 
>>microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>>
>>So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing 
>>(if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too 
>>much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the 
>>rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, 
>>I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>>
>>Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through 
>>some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process 
>>described.
>
>Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
>
>(I expect that few women do.)

Same reason you model anything.

RL

In article <72rprgd31n7et0eh5f7atrdafglvku421o@4ax.com>, 
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com says...
> 
> The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
> the whole point?

If the layout is just a Circle Line I'm sure construction and 
elaboration is the only point.

But people have constructed layouts that replicate shunting logic 
puzzles. And maybe even those ethics challenges of whether to save one 
trespasser or several linesmen (etc)...

On 12/17/21 3:04 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:29:32 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
>>>> "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
>>>> deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
>>>> microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>>>>
>>>> So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
>>>> (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
>>>> much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
>>>> rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
>>>> I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
>>>> some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
>>>> described.
>>>
>>> Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
>>
>> It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the
>> size of peppercorns?
> 
> Designing electronics is continuously interesting, and makes money as
> opposed to spending it.
> 
> The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
> the whole point?

The largest ones are owned and operated by clubs, that type they can and 
do operate like a real railroad. Print up waybills, have virtual 
industries, make up and break down the trains and send the "goods" where 
they need to go. There's no shortage of people actually in the 
transit/logistics industry involved in the hobby (though often retired.)

And sometimes it's mostly art like this Great Depression-era layout was 
largely scratch-built by one guy over 25 years or so:

<https://youtu.be/vvbg_tL9JXM>

> We wouldn't have enough room anyhow.
> 
>>
>> (I outgrew trains, and gave what remained to my nephew, who didn't
>> stay interested all that long.)
> 
> I had a train set as a kid, but mostly took them apart.

On 12/18/21 9:45 AM, bitrex wrote:
> On 12/17/21 3:04 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:29:32 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
>>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
>>>>> "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel 
>>>>> oxides
>>>>> deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
>>>>> microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>>>>>
>>>>> So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces 
>>>>> micro-arcing
>>>>> (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
>>>>> much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it 
>>>>> leaves the
>>>>> rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral 
>>>>> spirits,
>>>>> I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
>>>>> some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
>>>>> described.
>>>>
>>>> Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
>>>
>>> It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the
>>> size of peppercorns?
>>
>> Designing electronics is continuously interesting, and makes money as
>> opposed to spending it.
>>
>> The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
>> the whole point?
> 
> The largest ones are owned and operated by clubs, that type they can and 
> do operate like a real railroad. Print up waybills, have virtual 
> industries, make up and break down the trains and send the "goods" where 
> they need to go. There's no shortage of people actually in the 
> transit/logistics industry involved in the hobby (though often retired.)
> 
> And sometimes it's mostly art like this Great Depression-era layout was 
> largely scratch-built by one guy over 25 years or so:
> 
> <https://youtu.be/vvbg_tL9JXM>

Though I believe George Selios also ran a business selling kits for some 
of the structures and pieces he designed, Fine Scale Miniatures, so 
wasn't entirely a money-sink

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 11:58:40 -0000, Mike Coon
<gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

>In article <72rprgd31n7et0eh5f7atrdafglvku421o@4ax.com>, 
>jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com says...
>> 
>> The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
>> the whole point?
>
>If the layout is just a Circle Line I'm sure construction and 
>elaboration is the only point.
>
>But people have constructed layouts that replicate shunting logic 
>puzzles. And maybe even those ethics challenges of whether to save one 
>trespasser or several linesmen (etc)...

OK. I solve mind-bending problems all day and then just want to hike a
hill or read something silly. I guess some people want to work
crosswords or play chess or build things to keep their brains happy.



-- 

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 09:50:09 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>On 12/18/21 9:45 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 12/17/21 3:04 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:29:32 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
>>>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
>>>>>> "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel 
>>>>>> oxides
>>>>>> deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
>>>>>> microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces 
>>>>>> micro-arcing
>>>>>> (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
>>>>>> much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it 
>>>>>> leaves the
>>>>>> rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral 
>>>>>> spirits,
>>>>>> I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
>>>>>> some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
>>>>>> described.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
>>>>
>>>> It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the
>>>> size of peppercorns?
>>>
>>> Designing electronics is continuously interesting, and makes money as
>>> opposed to spending it.
>>>
>>> The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
>>> the whole point?
>> 
>> The largest ones are owned and operated by clubs, that type they can and 
>> do operate like a real railroad. Print up waybills, have virtual 
>> industries, make up and break down the trains and send the "goods" where 
>> they need to go. There's no shortage of people actually in the 
>> transit/logistics industry involved in the hobby (though often retired.)
>> 
>> And sometimes it's mostly art like this Great Depression-era layout was 
>> largely scratch-built by one guy over 25 years or so:
>> 
>> <https://youtu.be/vvbg_tL9JXM>
>
>Though I believe George Selios also ran a business selling kits for some 
>of the structures and pieces he designed, Fine Scale Miniatures, so 
>wasn't entirely a money-sink
>

Someone gave us an giant elaborate wooden Christmas village thing
custom-hand-build by some old guy in Germany. I'm not sure what we'll
do with it.



-- 

I yam what I yam - Popeye