On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:> On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > described. > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.I can't see a track snubber helping.
Model train electronics
Started by ●December 16, 2021
Reply by ●December 30, 20212021-12-30
Reply by ●December 31, 20212021-12-31
On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote:> On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote: > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > > described. > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat. > I can't see a track snubber helping.Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control: https://www.s-cab.com/ You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.
Reply by ●December 31, 20212021-12-31
On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:> On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote: > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote: > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > > > described. > > > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat. > > I can't see a track snubber helping. > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control: > https://www.s-cab.com/ > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose. Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. -- Rick C. +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●December 31, 20212021-12-31
On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:01:01 UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: ...> Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. >... The commercial units are a bit more sophisticated than that with full superhet 2.4GHz receivers and an H-bridge to operate the motor. The smallest are about 1cm square and about 2mm thick. Additional output channels are often available for controlling lights etc. The battery is a space issue in the smaller scales such but the smallest single cell at a bit larger than the receiver can often be squeezed in. http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.html Multiple trains can be run on the same track without resorting to this approach using Digital Command Control (DCC) where the track is fed a coded signal that is used to provide both power and data. kw
Reply by ●December 31, 20212021-12-31
On 2021-12-31 18:42, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:> On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:01:01 UTC-8, > gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: ... >> Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine >> control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU >> plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I >> believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I >> expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. >> > ... The commercial units are a bit more sophisticated than that with > full superhet 2.4GHz receivers and an H-bridge to operate the motor. > The smallest are about 1cm square and about 2mm thick. Additional > output channels are often available for controlling lights etc. >[...]> > http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.htmlWhere does it say that these are superhets? Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●December 31, 20212021-12-31
On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:55:35 UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote: ...> > > > http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.html > > Where does it say that these are superhets?... These days nobody would implement anything other than a superhet in an IC. The requirements for frequency accuracy and emissions mean that super-regenerative receivers are not appropriate. The receivers do typically use either zero IF with I/Q demodulation or a low IF in the couple of hundred kHz region as that can avoid the need for external LC or ceramic filters. I think this is the data sheet for the receivers I linked to: https://www.digikey.sg/htmldatasheets/production/836363/0/0/1/cyrf6936.html kw
Reply by ●January 2, 20222022-01-02
On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote: > > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote: > > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote: > > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > > > > described. > > > > > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat. > > > I can't see a track snubber helping. > > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control: > > https://www.s-cab.com/ > > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track. > That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose. > > Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. > > -- > > Rick C. > > +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant.
Reply by ●January 2, 20222022-01-02
On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 11:40:19 PM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote: > > > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote: > > > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote: > > > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > > > > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > > > > > described. > > > > > > > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > > > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat. > > > > I can't see a track snubber helping. > > > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control: > > > https://www.s-cab.com/ > > > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track. > > That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose. > > > > Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. > > > > -- > > > > Rick C. > > > > +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant.The link is of a design using modules rather than an integrated design. But they manage to cram it into an HO gauge so I guess it's not all that large. It would seem they charge through the rails? I guess you can do that with a stationary unit and not have the problem with the tarnish impacting the connection. -- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●January 2, 20222022-01-02
On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 8:51:17 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 11:40:19 PM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote: > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote: > > > > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > > > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > > > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > > > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > > > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > > > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > > > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > > > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > > > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > > > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > > > > > > described. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > > > > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat. > > > > > I can't see a track snubber helping. > > > > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control: > > > > https://www.s-cab.com/ > > > > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track. > > > That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose. > > > > > > Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant. > The link is of a design using modules rather than an integrated design. But they manage to cram it into an HO gauge so I guess it's not all that large. It would seem they charge through the rails? I guess you can do that with a stationary unit and not have the problem with the tarnish impacting the connection. > > -- > > Rick C. > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209They are no different from your Tesla - it doesn't charge while you're driving, either.
Reply by ●January 2, 20222022-01-02
On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 11:57:30 PM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:> On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 8:51:17 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 11:40:19 PM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote: > > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote: > > > > > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote: > > > > > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get > > > > > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides > > > > > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and > > > > > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing > > > > > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too > > > > > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the > > > > > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, > > > > > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through > > > > > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process > > > > > > > > described. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in > > > > > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat. > > > > > > I can't see a track snubber helping. > > > > > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control: > > > > > https://www.s-cab.com/ > > > > > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track. > > > > That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose. > > > > > > > > Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > > > +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > > +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant. > > The link is of a design using modules rather than an integrated design. But they manage to cram it into an HO gauge so I guess it's not all that large. It would seem they charge through the rails? I guess you can do that with a stationary unit and not have the problem with the tarnish impacting the connection. > > > > -- > > > > Rick C. > > > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > They are no different from your Tesla - it doesn't charge while you're driving, either.Your reading comprehension is pretty poor, eh? That is in no way responsive to what I was saying. -- Rick C. --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
