On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 9:16:06 AM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:> torsdag den 5. august 2021 kl. 15.07.54 UTC+2 skrev Jeff Layman: > > On 05/08/2021 07:49, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 4:38:51 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > >> On a sunny day (Wed, 04 Aug 2021 13:09:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin > > >> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in > > >> <pqslggdiehomu3o55...@4ax.com>: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/while-they-were-asleep-their-teslas-burned-in-the-garage-it-e2-80-99s-a-risk-many-automakers > > >>> -are-taking-seriously/ar-AAMVBlV > > >>> > > >>> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > > >> > > >> Batteries are always dangerous. > > > > > > Any stored energy is always dangerous. Big batteries are lot less dangerous than large chunks of chemical energy. Bulk storage of ammonium nitrate has produced a couple of mega-ton explosions. > > Unusual for you to get your facts so wrong, Bill. A few kilotons, maybe, > > but megatons? Not a chance. > yeh, the three biggest are all around 3000ton of ammonium nitrateYep- a few million pounds in a ship's hold contaminated with fuel oil. It doesn't help when the dock workers try to break up a salt crust formed on top of the pile with a few sticks of dynamite.
battery problems
Started by ●August 4, 2021
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 9:07:54 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:> On 05/08/2021 07:49, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 4:38:51 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Wed, 04 Aug 2021 13:09:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin > >> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in > >> <pqslggdiehomu3o55...@4ax.com>: > >> > >>> > >>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/while-they-were-asleep-their-teslas-burned-in-the-garage-it-e2-80-99s-a-risk-many-automakers > >>> -are-taking-seriously/ar-AAMVBlV > >>> > >>> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > >> > >> Batteries are always dangerous. > > > > Any stored energy is always dangerous. Big batteries are lot less dangerous than large chunks of chemical energy. Bulk storage of ammonium nitrate has produced a couple of mega-ton explosions. > Unusual for you to get your facts so wrong, Bill. A few kilotons, maybe, > but megatons? Not a chance.There was this massive explosion at Picatinny nearly 100 years ago. Not sure about those numbers in the article. It started when lightning struck a earth bermed storage bunker causing it to start smoking. The fire department arrived, these were really fearless people, and started hosing the place down with water. According to witnesses, after just a few minutes, the place exploded, the fire crew and everything around evaporated. The shock wave from the explosion caused what's called sympathetic detonation of the remaining storage area, which was quite large. They ended up with a huge mess. https://nj1015.com/the-devastating-picatinny-arsenal-explosion-of-1926/> > -- > > Jeff
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On 8/4/2021 4:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:> >... > https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > >The article mentions battery capacity in MW. Is that just journalistic ignorance or are these batteries really measured in MW, not MWh? I'd think that _energy_, not _power_, would be the metric.
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 6:54:40 AM UTC-7, bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:> On 8/4/2021 4:09 PM, John Larkin wrote: > > > >... > > https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > > > > > > The article mentions battery capacity in MW. Is that just journalistic > ignorance or are these batteries really measured in MW, not MWh? I'd > think that _energy_, not _power_, would be the metric.They are utilized to stabilize 300MW power plant.
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On 05/08/21 14:53, Bob Engelhardt wrote:> On 8/4/2021 4:09 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> >> ... >> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three >> >> >> > > The article mentions battery capacity in MW. Is that just journalistic > ignorance or are these batteries really measured in MW, not MWh? I'd think that > _energy_, not _power_, would be the metric.That's a standard problem, especially with "greens" that pronounce on the subject. If I know I'm going to be coming across some of their literature (and I use that word advisedly) at an exhibition, then I take a marker pen to correct the inevitable energy/power idiocies.
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 11:07:54 PM UTC+10, Jeff Layman wrote:> On 05/08/2021 07:49, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 4:38:51 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Wed, 04 Aug 2021 13:09:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin > >> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in > >> <pqslggdiehomu3o55...@4ax.com>: > >> > >>> > >>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/while-they-were-asleep-their-teslas-burned-in-the-garage-it-e2-80-99s-a-risk-many-automakers > >>> -are-taking-seriously/ar-AAMVBlV > >>> > >>> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > >> > >> Batteries are always dangerous. > > > > Any stored energy is always dangerous. Big batteries are lot less dangerous than large chunks of chemical energy. Bulk storage of ammonium nitrate has produced a couple of mega-ton explosions. > > Unusual for you to get your facts so wrong, Bill. A few kilotons, maybe, > but megatons? Not a chance.Oops. My bad. I was thinking of Halifax in 1917 which was about three kilotons. A fire onboard the cargo ship SS Grandcamp docked at Texas City in 1947 detonated 2,300 tons of ammonium nitrate, which is in the same ball-park. A disaster in the Rhineland town of Opac in 1921 seems to have been just as bad. I have seen write-ups talking about a million tons of ammonium nitrate in warehouses going up but that must have been journalistic license. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 06:33:21 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Wed, 04 Aug 2021 13:09:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in ><pqslggdiehomu3o5540vh3fml2mtc44rqq@4ax.com>: > >> >>https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/while-they-were-asleep-their-teslas-burned-in-the-garage-it-e2-80-99s-a-risk-many-automakers >>-are-taking-seriously/ar-AAMVBlV >> >>https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > >Batteries are always dangerous. >I have an old mp3 player, runs on one 1,5 V eneloop battery. >Put it in my pocket, wanted to bring it upstairs, >something burned in my side, thing was melting!Same thing happened to me, a 9 volt battery and some coins. Weird feeling. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:34:01 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/while-they-were-asleep-their-teslas-burned-in-the-garage-it-e2-80-99s-a-risk-many-automakers-are-taking-seriously/ar-AAMVBlV >> >> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > > >This is so typical of the lack of intelligence in corporate and government management. Effective chemical fire extinguisher technology has been and continues to be developed to quench large lithium battery fires quickly and efficiency.But all the reactants are close together, in a reacting heap. It doesn't need air. The only way to stop the fire is to cool everything off, or disperse it all. An explosion might work. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:53:49 -0400, Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:>On 8/4/2021 4:09 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> >>... >> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three >> >> > >The article mentions battery capacity in MW. Is that just journalistic >ignorance or are these batteries really measured in MW, not MWh? I'd >think that _energy_, not _power_, would be the metric."Science reporters" can't tell a watt from a watt-hour, or a mega from a giga, and tend to neglect timebases. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Reply by ●August 5, 20212021-08-05
On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 11:54:40 PM UTC+10, bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:> On 8/4/2021 4:09 PM, John Larkin wrote: > > > >... > > https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three > > The article mentions battery capacity in MW. Is that just journalistic > ignorance or are these batteries really measured in MW, not MWh? I'd > think that _energy_, not _power_, would be the metric.The industry can be more interested in how much power they can get in or out, than in the actual energy stored, though that is obviously important too. The Tesla battery bank in South Australia has made a lot more money out of providing short term frequency correction to compensate for rapidly changing loads than it has out buying up power when the grid is selling it cheaply and selling it back when the grid will pay more for it. Apparently it is split half-and-half between the two jobs The battery bank may have been sold to South Australia as am energy store, but a frequency correction machine it works a whole lot better than the traditional solutions, and the power it can deliver in the short term is the crucial metric in that job. Victoria has a lot more industry than South Australia so it may need a lot more power to handle the frequency correction job. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
