On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote:> On 2020-09-18, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > >> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > >> > >> How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > The argument is, the parent company is required (under Chinese law) to act as > > an agent of Chinese government. This means, by extension, that US-origin > > information which would not be available to US government without showing > > cause and getting a court order, is routinely available to China.> This is a false argument, the parent company is not chinese.The grand-parent company ByteDance Ltd. IS Chinese.> https://reason.com/2020/08/24/mike-godwin-the-creator-of-godwins-law-is-suing-trump-over-his-tiktok-executive-order/ > > -- > Jasen.
OT: People Proclaim the Right to Spread the Virus, but We Don't Have a Right to TikTok
Started by ●September 18, 2020
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 4:45:30 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 1:12:10 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 3:57:11 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > > Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > > > > > > > How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > > > Everything TikTok does is also done by Google, Yahoo and many other web sites. It is claimed that TikTok gives the information mined to the Chinese government. Really? PRC wants to know what clothes I'm buying and what movies I watch??? > > > > > > Not really, but they want to know where the soldiers are, when they are taking selfies using TikTok during training. There were published paths of U.S. military bases in Turkey (i think). > > > Of course that can't happen with Facebook or any other web site??? It's not about what people did with a social media site, it's about creating paranoia over China. > > CCP does not have controlling interest in facebook. CCP invest and control TikTok top management, and to a lesser degree: Zoom.None of which is relevant. Google will sell your info to the highest bidder and makes a lot of money doing it. No one is unhappy about that. You still have not explained what the PRC is going to do with knowledge of what brand of underwear you buy.> > If car companies start making cars in China for sale in the US I guess Trump will ban them too saying they can spy on where we travel and may some day refuse to work crippling our transportation when the Chinese invade. How about we just stop buying anything from China and make everything the US needs in South Bend, Indiana? That should work well, no? > > Even if they don't export to the U.S., if they have large financial establishment in China. CCP can twist the manfacturer's arm and leg. For example, they can order the manufacturer to disclose their rocket engine design, or risk communizing their factories.Yeah, right. LOL If China treats one manufacturer like that they all leave the country. -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:30:47 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote:> On 2020-09-18, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > >> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > >> > >> How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > The argument is, the parent company is required (under Chinese law) to act as > > an agent of Chinese government. This means, by extension, that US-origin > > information which would not be available to US government without showing > > cause and getting a court order, is routinely available to China. > > This is a false argument, the parent company is not chinese. > > https://reason.com/2020/08/24/mike-godwin-the-creator-of-godwins-law-is-suing-trump-over-his-tiktok-executive-order/"TikTok is neither owned, operated, nor controlled by China or the Chinese government. Indeed, TikTok does not even operate in China," the lawsuit states. Why try to confuse the issue with the facts??? -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 6:54:26 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:> On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:30:47 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote: > > On 2020-09-18, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > >> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > >> > > >> How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > > > > The argument is, the parent company is required (under Chinese law) to act as > > > an agent of Chinese government. This means, by extension, that US-origin > > > information which would not be available yto US government without showing > > > cause and getting a court order, is routinely available to China. > > > > This is a false argument, the parent company is not chinese. > > > > https://reason.com/2020/08/24/mike-godwin-the-creator-of-godwins-law-is-suing-trump-over-his-tiktok-executive-order/> "TikTok is neither owned, operated, nor controlled by China or the Chinese government. Indeed, TikTok does not even operate in China," the lawsuit states.You believe everything lawsuit states? Well, technically true. TikTok is not, but ByteDance is. TikTok is owned by ByteDance, with major share holders controlled by CCP. CCP said they must approve transfer, or they will shut it down.> Why try to confuse the issue with the facts???Because you are confused.
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 6:47:14 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:> On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 4:45:30 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 1:12:10 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 3:57:11 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > > > Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > > > > > > > > > How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > > > > > Everything TikTok does is also done by Google, Yahoo and many other web sites. It is claimed that TikTok gives the information mined to the Chinese government. Really? PRC wants to know what clothes I'm buying and what movies I watch??? > > > > > > > > Not really, but they want to know where the soldiers are, when they are taking selfies using TikTok during training. There were published paths of U.S. military bases in Turkey (i think). > > > > > Of course that can't happen with Facebook or any other web site??? It's not about what people did with a social media site, it's about creating paranoia over China. > > > > CCP does not have controlling interest in facebook. CCP invest and control TikTok top management, and to a lesser degree: Zoom. > None of which is relevant. Google will sell your info to the highest bidder and makes a lot of money doing it. No one is unhappy about that. You still have not explained what the PRC is going to do with knowledge of what brand of underwear you buy. > > > If car companies start making cars in China for sale in the US I guess Trump will ban them too saying they can spy on where we travel and may some day refuse to work crippling our transportation when the Chinese invade. How about we just stop buying anything from China and make everything the US needs in South Bend, Indiana? That should work well, no? > > > > Even if they don't export to the U.S., if they have large financial establishment in China. CCP can twist the manfacturer's arm and leg. For example, they can order the manufacturer to disclose their rocket engine design, or risk communizing their factories.> Yeah, right. LOL If China treats one manufacturer like that they all leave the country.For example: https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/china-coronavirus-nationalize-america-owned-car-company
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
Ricketty C wrote:> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > Everything TikTok does is also done by Google, Yahoo and many other web sites. It is claimed that TikTok gives the information mined to the Chinese government. Really? PRC wants to know what clothes I'm buying and what movies I watch???* They know, because they make all of it and sell all of it to us. So they also know the markup and profit structure.> > Is this the height of paranoia??? Is there any substance to this phobia? > > Oh, I get it. Let's ignore the real issues of the economy and the coronavirus and find an enemy to attack! We don't want to fight any shootin' wars, but we can pick on as many companies as we fell like. But not too far from the election. We don't want the courts telling us we were wrong so make sure there's not enough time for a court challenge. > > Whatever. We'll only have to deal with this nonsense another few months. >
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 10:03:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 6:54:26 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:30:47 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote: > > > On 2020-09-18, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > >> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > > >> > > > >> How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > > > > > > > The argument is, the parent company is required (under Chinese law) to act as > > > > an agent of Chinese government. This means, by extension, that US-origin > > > > information which would not be available yto US government without showing > > > > cause and getting a court order, is routinely available to China. > > > > > > This is a false argument, the parent company is not chinese. > > > > > > https://reason.com/2020/08/24/mike-godwin-the-creator-of-godwins-law-is-suing-trump-over-his-tiktok-executive-order/ > > > "TikTok is neither owned, operated, nor controlled by China or the Chinese government. Indeed, TikTok does not even operate in China," the lawsuit states. > > You believe everything lawsuit states? Well, technically true. TikTok is not, but ByteDance is. > > TikTok is owned by ByteDance, with major share holders controlled by CCP. CCP said they must approve transfer, or they will shut it down. > > > Why try to confuse the issue with the facts??? > > Because you are confused.I am confused enough to not understand why I should give a shit if the Chinese government has their hands in the company. Why should China be any different from other countries? The US government is all about getting information on everyone US companies deal with. As was pointed out they actually require the communications industry to provide access points into their networks for the US government to acquire any data available. With the current lunatic running the country roughshod I'm not very worried about the Chinese tapping into dance videos. This is the first time in my life I can honestly say (since Vietnam anyway) I am fearful of the future. Not because of TikTok, but because nearly half the voters in this country still feel that the right person was picked as President last election. Worse, those less than half the voters can potentially control the election because of population distributions within the several states. Yeah, that scares me. The Chinese, not so much. -- Rick C. +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 10:45:41 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:> Ricketty C wrote: > > Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > > > How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > Everything TikTok does is also done by Google, Yahoo and many other web sites. It is claimed that TikTok gives the information mined to the Chinese government. Really? PRC wants to know what clothes I'm buying and what movies I watch??? > * They know, because they make all of it and sell all of it to us. > So they also know the markup and profit structure.I have an idea of how we can strike at the heart of the Chinese government. We just need to stop buying anything from them. Nothing. Quit cold turkey. I'm sure we can ramp up South Bend one more time! -- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 18, 20202020-09-18
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:47:15 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:> On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 10:03:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 6:54:26 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:30:47 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote: > > > > On 2020-09-18, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > > >> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > > > >> > > > > >> How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The argument is, the parent company is required (under Chinese law) to act as > > > > > an agent of Chinese government. This means, by extension, that US-origin > > > > > information which would not be available yto US government without showing > > > > > cause and getting a court order, is routinely available to China. > > > > > > > > This is a false argument, the parent company is not chinese. > > > > > > > > https://reason.com/2020/08/24/mike-godwin-the-creator-of-godwins-law-is-suing-trump-over-his-tiktok-executive-order/ > > > > > "TikTok is neither owned, operated, nor controlled by China or the Chinese government. Indeed, TikTok does not even operate in China," the lawsuit states. > > > > You believe everything lawsuit states? Well, technically true. TikTok is not, but ByteDance is. > > > > TikTok is owned by ByteDance, with major share holders controlled by CCP. CCP said they must approve transfer, or they will shut it down. > > > > > Why try to confuse the issue with the facts??? > > > > Because you are confused. > I am confused enough to not understand why I should give a shit if the Chinese government has their hands in the company. > > Why should China be any different from other countries? The US government is all about getting information on everyone US companies deal with. As was pointed out they actually require the communications industry to provide access points into their networks for the US government to acquire any data available. > > With the current lunatic running the country roughshod I'm not very worried about the Chinese tapping into dance videos. > > This is the first time in my life I can honestly say (since Vietnam anyway) I am fearful of the future. Not because of TikTok, but because nearly half the voters in this country still feel that the right person was picked as President last election. Worse, those less than half the voters can potentially control the election because of population distributions within the several states. > > Yeah, that scares me. The Chinese, not so much.Unfortunately, the west (U.S. included) does not teach marx, lenin and communism in school, at least well enough to understand what it means. Communism means everything belong to the state. CCP takes it one step further and everything belongs to the party, including their mind and speech.
Reply by ●September 19, 20202020-09-19
On Saturday, September 19, 2020 at 12:54:49 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:> On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:47:15 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 10:03:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 6:54:26 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 7:30:47 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote: > > > > > On 2020-09-18, whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote: > > > > > >> Tell me this country is not so messed up! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> How again is TikTok a threat to national security??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The argument is, the parent company is required (under Chinese law) to act as > > > > > > an agent of Chinese government. This means, by extension, that US-origin > > > > > > information which would not be available yto US government without showing > > > > > > cause and getting a court order, is routinely available to China. > > > > > > > > > > This is a false argument, the parent company is not chinese. > > > > > > > > > > https://reason.com/2020/08/24/mike-godwin-the-creator-of-godwins-law-is-suing-trump-over-his-tiktok-executive-order/ > > > > > > > "TikTok is neither owned, operated, nor controlled by China or the Chinese government. Indeed, TikTok does not even operate in China," the lawsuit states. > > > > > > You believe everything lawsuit states? Well, technically true. TikTok is not, but ByteDance is. > > > > > > TikTok is owned by ByteDance, with major share holders controlled by CCP. CCP said they must approve transfer, or they will shut it down. > > > > > > > Why try to confuse the issue with the facts??? > > > > > > Because you are confused. > > I am confused enough to not understand why I should give a shit if the Chinese government has their hands in the company. > > > > Why should China be any different from other countries? The US government is all about getting information on everyone US companies deal with. As was pointed out they actually require the communications industry to provide access points into their networks for the US government to acquire any data available. > > > > With the current lunatic running the country roughshod I'm not very worried about the Chinese tapping into dance videos. > > > > This is the first time in my life I can honestly say (since Vietnam anyway) I am fearful of the future. Not because of TikTok, but because nearly half the voters in this country still feel that the right person was picked as President last election. Worse, those less than half the voters can potentially control the election because of population distributions within the several states. > > > > Yeah, that scares me. The Chinese, not so much. > > Unfortunately, the west (U.S. included) does not teach marx, lenin and communism in school, at least well enough to understand what it means. Communism means everything belong to the state. CCP takes it one step further and everything belongs to the party, including their mind and speech.Not strictly correct. They did teach enough about it for me to be aware that Marx got thrown out of the international socialist movement in 1871 because they held that his endorsement of the "leading role of the party" was undemocratic, and likely to lead to tyranny (in which they were correct). As Bakunin said at the time "“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” It's not so much about the state owning everything, as the party having absolute power to do what they want. The Russian Communist Party and the Chinese Communist Party are identical in this respect. It's not a sensible way to run a country, and the Chinese Communist Party did back off from the total central control of the economy that the Russians went in for, but it retains the right to take control of anything at any time if some bureaucrat thinks it would be a good idea, and can persuade their political master to go along with it. Bribes do seem to be one of the tools of persuasion available. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
