On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 9:03:52 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> >On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> >> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, > >> adoration from movie stars....> ...musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame > and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science.When you've referred to 'science' here, your views have always been distortions anyway. So, how would you see a difference?
scientists as superstars
Started by ●June 19, 2020
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:26:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 6/19/2020 12:03 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> >>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>> >>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>> >>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human history, >>> probably. >> >> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. >> >> >> > >Americans tend to be vaguely anti-intellectual and elitist/deferential >to authority by nature;That explains why we invented light bulbs, telegraph, telephone, airplanes, triodes, superhets, transistors, ICs, lasers, nuclear reactors, bbq ribs, and the Declaration of Independence. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On 19/06/20 17:01, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:07:20 +0100, Tom Gardner > <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> On 19/06/20 15:50, Bill Sloman wrote: >>> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 11:49:28 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>> >>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>> adoration from movie stars. >>> >>> As opposed to posing as an expert business-man on "The Apprentice"? >> >> Touché ! > > And far too predictable. Sloman is.Possibly. However, his comment is useful, accurate and apposite.
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On 19/06/20 17:03, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> >>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>> >>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>> adoration from movie stars. >>> >>> >>> >> >> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >> >> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human history, >> probably. > > But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame > and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science.That would be a risk, but not necessarily a problem. There's no cause and effect there.
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On 6/19/2020 12:33 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:26:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 6/19/2020 12:03 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>>> >>>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>>> >>>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human history, >>>> probably. >>> >>> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >>> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. >>> >>> >>> >> >> Americans tend to be vaguely anti-intellectual and elitist/deferential >> to authority by nature; > > That explains why we invented light bulbs, telegraph, telephone, > airplanes, triodes, superhets, transistors, ICs, lasers, nuclear > reactors, bbq ribs, and the Declaration of Independence. > >Those tended to be invented by individual Americans they weren't some collective effort. I'm sure a large fraction of the US population thought airplanes were straight nonsense until they saw one in the air, and that seemed to be the opinion of the popular press as well. Ridiculous, a total theoretical impossibility! some guy who wasn't an aeronautical scientist or engineer might say. oh. would you look at that. Whomever invented BBQ ribs was probably told by many of his compatriots "That'll never sell..."
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On 6/19/2020 12:46 PM, bitrex wrote:> On 6/19/2020 12:33 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:26:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 6/19/2020 12:03 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>>>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>>>> >>>>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>>>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>>>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human >>>>> history, >>>>> probably. >>>> >>>> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >>>> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Americans tend to be vaguely anti-intellectual and elitist/deferential >>> to authority by nature; >> >> That explains why we invented light bulbs, telegraph, telephone, >> airplanes, triodes, superhets, transistors, ICs, lasers, nuclear >> reactors, bbq ribs, and the Declaration of Independence. >> >> > > Those tended to be invented by individual Americans they weren't some > collective effort. I'm sure a large fraction of the US population > thought airplanes were straight nonsense until they saw one in the air, > and that seemed to be the opinion of the popular press as well. > Ridiculous, a total theoretical impossibility! some guy who wasn't an > aeronautical scientist or engineer might say. oh. would you look at that. > > Whomever invented BBQ ribs was probably told by many of his compatriots > "That'll never sell..." >And then after they saw one millions of the same Americans told their friends "Well. you know. I always knew it was possible. I was one of the earliest supporters of manned flight if you recall. Truly amazing what we Americans can do when we put our minds to it!"
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On 19/06/20 17:33, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:26:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 6/19/2020 12:03 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>>> >>>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>>> >>>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human history, >>>> probably. >>> >>> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >>> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. >>> >>> >>> >> >> Americans tend to be vaguely anti-intellectual and elitist/deferential >> to authority by nature;Summary... partly in the right area, but certainly not close enough for a cigar.> That explains why we invented light bulbs,Nope, but close. UK court ruled that Edison infringed Swan's patent. US Patent Office also invalidated Edison's patent.> telegraph,Nope. Not even close. Even if we ignore the telegraphs proposed in the 17C and widely implemented during the Napoleonic wars, the first commercial long distance electric telegraph was installed in 1839 in the UK.> airplanes,Nope, not even close. First person to understand and demonstrate the principle of flight was Cayley. His first manned (well, boyed) flight was in 1949. There were many others, notably Otto Lilienthal.> triodes,Close. See Robert von Lieben.> nuclear reactors,Arguable. Much of the inspiration and work was from European refugees. The first industrial scale nuke was in England.> bbq ribs, and the Declaration of Independence.Shrug.
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On 6/19/2020 12:57 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:> On 19/06/20 17:33, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:26:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 6/19/2020 12:03 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>>>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>>>> >>>>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>>>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>>>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human >>>>> history, >>>>> probably. >>>> >>>> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >>>> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Americans tend to be vaguely anti-intellectual and elitist/deferential >>> to authority by nature; > > Summary... partly in the right area, but certainly > not close enough for a cigar. > > >> That explains why we invented light bulbs, > > Nope, but close. > > UK court ruled that Edison infringed Swan's patent. > US Patent Office also invalidated Edison's patent. > > >> telegraph, > > Nope. Not even close. > > Even if we ignore the telegraphs proposed in the 17C and > widely implemented during the Napoleonic wars, the first > commercial long distance electric telegraph was installed > in 1839 in the UK. > > >> airplanes, > > Nope, not even close. > > First person to understand and demonstrate the principle > of flight was Cayley. His first manned (well, boyed) flight > was in 1949. > > There were many others, notably Otto Lilienthal. > > >> triodes, > > Close. See Robert von Lieben. > > >> nuclear reactors, > > Arguable. Much of the inspiration and work was > from European refugees. > > The first industrial scale nuke was in England. > > >> bbq ribs, and the Declaration of Independence. > > Shrug.Americans don't tend to invent things for their own sake, anyone can make a thing. We invent marketable products. That is to say Edison didn't think of the idea for a light bulb, his company just made one that didn't suck. The Wrights didn't invent the idea of heavier-than-air flight, but they built the first airplane you didn't have to be totally insane to want to get in. Only partly insane. Good enough to move some product.
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 17:57:42 +0100, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:>On 19/06/20 17:33, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:26:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 6/19/2020 12:03 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>>>> >>>>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>>>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>>>> >>>>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>>>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>>>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human history, >>>>> probably. >>>> >>>> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >>>> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Americans tend to be vaguely anti-intellectual and elitist/deferential >>> to authority by nature; > >Summary... partly in the right area, but certainly >not close enough for a cigar. > > >> That explains why we invented light bulbs, > >Nope, but close. > >UK court ruled that Edison infringed Swan's patent. >US Patent Office also invalidated Edison's patent. > > >> telegraph, > >Nope. Not even close. > >Even if we ignore the telegraphs proposed in the 17C and >widely implemented during the Napoleonic wars, the first >commercial long distance electric telegraph was installed >in 1839 in the UK. > > >> airplanes, > >Nope, not even close. > >First person to understand and demonstrate the principle >of flight was Cayley. His first manned (well, boyed) flight >was in 1949. > >There were many others, notably Otto Lilienthal. > > >> triodes, > >Close. See Robert von Lieben. > > >> nuclear reactors, > >Arguable. Much of the inspiration and work was >from European refugees.Bingo. Creative people come here so they can create stuff.> >The first industrial scale nuke was in England. > > >> bbq ribs, and the Declaration of Independence. > >Shrug.If you shrug bbq ribs, you've never had good ones. But none of the other possible prior inventions went anywhere. Given that the US is about 5% of the planet's population, we sure create a lot of stuff. And a lot of that stuff is created by amateurs. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●June 19, 20202020-06-19
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 17:40:44 +0100, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:>On 19/06/20 17:03, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:47:00 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 6/19/2020 9:49 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> >>>> https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/scientists-as-heroes-keep-that-image-public-eye/ >>>> >>>> That's really scary, science as a path to fame, fortune, prizes, >>>> adoration from movie stars. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Justin Bieber's music videos have well over a billion views, he's more >>> famous than all scientists in the world put together. >>> >>> the video for "Gagnam Style" by Psy has pushing 4 billion views alone; >>> more man-hours have been spent watching that one video than every >>> scientific documentary or lecture given by a scientist in human history, >>> probably. >> >> But musicians optimize their performance precisely to generate fame >> and fortune. When scientists do that, it grossly distorts the science. > >That would be a risk, but not necessarily a problem. >There's no cause and effect there.Of course there is. The requirement to publish is part of the fame-and-fortune thing. Some serious fraction of published "scientific" research can't be reproduced. More than anything else, more than a need for truth, people seek power. Economists and scientists aren't immune from that. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
