On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 15:05:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 06/05/2018 12:02 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 07:03:11 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2018-06-05 06:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> On 06/04/2018 06:08 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> On 2018-06-04 09:22, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>> On 06/04/2018 12:03 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >>>>>>> Am 04.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Phil Hobbs: >>>>>>>> BFT92, RIP. :( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> NXP, you lousy bastards, you just took away about a quarter of my >>>>>>>> design >>>>>>>> space. Get 'em while they last. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> https://www.intersil.com/en/products/space-and-harsh-environment/harsh-environment/transistor-arrays/HFA3096.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let's hope that at least _these_ stay for some time.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers, Gerhard >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, true, there are those. Unfortunately their Rbb' and Ree' are the >>>>>> pits. >>>>>> >>>>>> I just bought Newark's last reel of BFT92s, so we'll be okay for our own >>>>>> stuff, but I can't use them in custom or licensed designs any more. >>>>>> >>>>>> Which is a great pity--fast PNP wraparounds are good for a lot of >>>>>> things. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Digikey has several reels: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/BFT92215/568-1655-2-ND/763259 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You could buy some, put them in a nitrogen cabinet and 10 years down >>>>> the road less the individual transistors at auction for $5 a pop :-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> They're still available from NXP till November, though I don't know how >>>> many more wafers they'll actually be processing. >>>> >>>> One reel is probably enough for my needs, but this move puts some of my >>>> customers in a bit of a jam. I just got a call this morning to redesign >>>> a circuit from a year or two back, and I expect there'll be more. Not >>>> the sort of new business I'm most fond of. >>>> >>>> NXP. What a bunch of morons. >>>> >>> >>> If its any comfort I used a class-D driver IC from another manufacturer >>> in an unorthodox fashion, as a lab bench device to drive large >>> capacitive loads fast. Meaning ordinary class-D driver chips won't cut >>> it. Yesterday a client asked me how to turn this module into a smaller >>> version and get it into production for other purposes. Needless to say, >>> this IC has been obsoleted. Harumph! >>> >>> Guess we are in the same boat again :-) >> >> Given the choice, TI is our preferred vendor, because they tend to >> keep stuff in production. Conversely, we avoid NXP. >> >> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >> demand is too small. >> >> TI has some nice class-D amps. >> >> >Maybe we could get THAT or somebody to do them. > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs"THAT" is a possibility ;-) I did a number of audio things for them, MANY moons ago... using those Intersil (?) wire-up-only chips. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
Well, it happened--the last fast PNP is EOL
Started by ●June 4, 2018
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 2018-06-05 12:19, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:38:27 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes > <bon@hertz.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote: > >> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> .. >>> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >>> demand is too small. >> >> I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation... > > Most of my chip designs, transferred to Lansdale, are on the military > preferred components list... they seem to love unconditionally stable > OpAmps, even if the open-loop gain is only 75dB... though I'm sure the > sliding-class-A outputs and 10V/us slew-rates grab their attention as > well ;-) >Any radhard opamps in there with CM input range to the negative rail and output to neg rail with pull-down? Will need that soon. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 15:07:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: [snip]>> >> The EOL of discretes does keep fast circuit design interesting. GaN >> parts are cheap and fast, but don't come in P-channel! >> >> > >Yeah, it's like doing chip design circa 1975--the NPNs are 100 times >faster than the PNPs. :( >[snip] That's stretching history just a tweak... PNP's back then were _laterals_ ... 1MHz GBW product, if you were lucky. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 12:22:47 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 2018-06-05 12:19, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:38:27 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes >> <bon@hertz.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> .. >>>> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >>>> demand is too small. >>> >>> I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation... >> >> Most of my chip designs, transferred to Lansdale, are on the military >> preferred components list... they seem to love unconditionally stable >> OpAmps, even if the open-loop gain is only 75dB... though I'm sure the >> sliding-class-A outputs and 10V/us slew-rates grab their attention as >> well ;-) >> > >Any radhard opamps in there with CM input range to the negative rail and >output to neg rail with pull-down? Will need that soon.Not from my just-out-of-school era. Today, I can easily design that for you... processing by X-Fab. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 2018-06-05 12:27, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 12:22:47 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2018-06-05 12:19, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:38:27 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes >>> <bon@hertz.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote: >>> >>>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> .. >>>>> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >>>>> demand is too small. >>>> >>>> I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation... >>> >>> Most of my chip designs, transferred to Lansdale, are on the military >>> preferred components list... they seem to love unconditionally stable >>> OpAmps, even if the open-loop gain is only 75dB... though I'm sure the >>> sliding-class-A outputs and 10V/us slew-rates grab their attention as >>> well ;-) >>> >> >> Any radhard opamps in there with CM input range to the negative rail and >> output to neg rail with pull-down? Will need that soon. > > Not from my just-out-of-school era. > > Today, I can easily design that for you... processing by X-Fab. >I'll find some off-the-shelf from "the usual suspects", was just wondering if there was a genuine Thompson amp around in rad-hard. Sometimes the just out of school designs are like VW Beetles. I have one that runs off the conveyor belt since the 90's, now in Shenzhen, no end in sight. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
Am 05.06.2018 um 21:22 schrieb Joerg:> On 2018-06-05 12:19, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:38:27 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes >> <bon@hertz.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> .. >>>> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >>>> demand is too small. >>> >>> I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation... >> >> Most of my chip designs, transferred to Lansdale, are on the military >> preferred components list... they seem to love unconditionally stable >> OpAmps, even if the open-loop gain is only 75dB... though I'm sure the >> sliding-class-A outputs and 10V/us slew-rates grab their attention as >> well ;-) >> > > Any radhard opamps in there with CM input range to the negative rail and > output to neg rail with pull-down? Will need that soon. >We did use lots of OP484 :-) Cheers, Gerhard
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 15:07:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 06/05/2018 01:29 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:56:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> On 06/04/2018 08:40 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> mandag den 4. juni 2018 kl. 23.42.01 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>>> On 4 Jun 2018 14:04:31 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> bitrex wrote... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Should start a s.e.d. fabless semiconductor company and get them made >>>>>>>> again, China will make whatever you like. You could advertise it as >>>>>>>> exactly that "The Last Fast PNP" like the Last of the Mohicans or something. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's be nice to have it available in a SOT-323 SC70 package. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe you and Hobbs should buy a wafer or two? Then, as time moves >>>>>> on, package them to suit the era? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> digikey has 18000 in stock, $2,835 for 15000 how many wafers can you get for that? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Discrete device wafers are dirt-cheap and low profitability. That's >>>> why the devices are being phased out. Was anyone besides Hobbs buying >>>> them? >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> >>> They sell for a lot more than digital transistors or BCX71s, and can't >>> be much harder to make. Nexperia didn't take NXP's rf transistors or >>> JFETs, so they're getting rid of them. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> The EOL of discretes does keep fast circuit design interesting. GaN >> parts are cheap and fast, but don't come in P-channel! >> >> > >Yeah, it's like doing chip design circa 1975--the NPNs are 100 times >faster than the PNPs. :( > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThe PNP CK722 was the fastest transistor when I was a kid. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
Am 05.06.2018 um 15:42 schrieb Phil Hobbs:> On 06/04/2018 06:08 PM, Joerg wrote: >> On 2018-06-04 09:22, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> On 06/04/2018 12:03 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >>>> Am 04.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Phil Hobbs: >>>>> BFT92, RIP. :( >>>>> >>>>> NXP, you lousy bastards, you just took away about a quarter of my >>>>> design >>>>> space. Get 'em while they last. >>>> >>>> >>>> < >>>> https://www.intersil.com/en/products/space-and-harsh-environment/harsh-environment/transistor-arrays/HFA3096.html >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> Let's hope that at least _these_ stay for some time.. >>>> >>>> cheers, Gerhard >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, true, there are those. Unfortunately their Rbb' and Ree' are the >>> pits. >>> >>> I just bought Newark's last reel of BFT92s, so we'll be okay for our own >>> stuff, but I can't use them in custom or licensed designs any more. >>> >>> Which is a great pity--fast PNP wraparounds are good for a lot of >>> things. >>> >> >> Digikey has several reels: >> >> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/BFT92215/568-1655-2-ND/763259 >> >> >> You could buy some, put them in a nitrogen cabinet and 10 years down >> the road less the individual transistors at auction for $5 a pop :-) >> > > They're still available from NXP till November, though I don't know how > many more wafers they'll actually be processing. > > One reel is probably enough for my needs, but this move puts some of my > customers in a bit of a jam. I just got a call this morning to redesign > a circuit from a year or two back, and I expect there'll be more. Not > the sort of new business I'm most fond of. > > NXP. What a bunch of morons.NXP: Not recommended for new designs. Gerhard
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
Am 05.06.2018 um 21:05 schrieb Phil Hobbs:>> > Maybe we could get THAT or somebody to do them. >Or Diodes, Inc.
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 2018-06-05 13:07, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:> Am 05.06.2018 um 21:22 schrieb Joerg: >> On 2018-06-05 12:19, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:38:27 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes >>> <bon@hertz.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote: >>> >>>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> .. >>>>> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >>>>> demand is too small. >>>> >>>> I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation... >>> >>> Most of my chip designs, transferred to Lansdale, are on the military >>> preferred components list... they seem to love unconditionally stable >>> OpAmps, even if the open-loop gain is only 75dB... though I'm sure the >>> sliding-class-A outputs and 10V/us slew-rates grab their attention as >>> well ;-) >>> >> >> Any radhard opamps in there with CM input range to the negative rail >> and output to neg rail with pull-down? Will need that soon. >> > We did use lots of OP484 :-) >Though I am sure the taxpayer was ultimately on the hook for those :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
