On 06/04/2018 05:41 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On 4 Jun 2018 14:04:31 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> > wrote: > >> bitrex wrote... >>> >>> >>> Should start a s.e.d. fabless semiconductor company and get them made >>> again, China will make whatever you like. You could advertise it as >>> exactly that "The Last Fast PNP" like the Last of the Mohicans or something. >> >> It's be nice to have it available in a SOT-323 SC70 package. > > Maybe you and Hobbs should buy a wafer or two? Then, as time moves > on, package them to suit the era? > > ...Jim Thompson >Since they're unique parts, perhaps we could persuade Lansdale or Rochester to make them--the litho resolution would be doable with very old equipment. Do you still have contacts there? I'd really like to be able to get the NE97733 again, too (8.5 GHz PNP). Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Well, it happened--the last fast PNP is EOL
Started by ●June 4, 2018
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 06/04/2018 08:40 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> mandag den 4. juni 2018 kl. 23.42.01 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson: >>> On 4 Jun 2018 14:04:31 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> bitrex wrote... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Should start a s.e.d. fabless semiconductor company and get them made >>>>> again, China will make whatever you like. You could advertise it as >>>>> exactly that "The Last Fast PNP" like the Last of the Mohicans or something. >>>> >>>> It's be nice to have it available in a SOT-323 SC70 package. >>> >>> Maybe you and Hobbs should buy a wafer or two? Then, as time moves >>> on, package them to suit the era? >>> >> >> digikey has 18000 in stock, $2,835 for 15000 how many wafers can you get for that? >> > > Discrete device wafers are dirt-cheap and low profitability. That's > why the devices are being phased out. Was anyone besides Hobbs buying > them? > > ...Jim Thompson >They sell for a lot more than digital transistors or BCX71s, and can't be much harder to make. Nexperia didn't take NXP's rf transistors or JFETs, so they're getting rid of them. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 07:03:11 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 2018-06-05 06:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 06/04/2018 06:08 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2018-06-04 09:22, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> On 06/04/2018 12:03 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >>>>> Am 04.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Phil Hobbs: >>>>>> BFT92, RIP. :( >>>>>> >>>>>> NXP, you lousy bastards, you just took away about a quarter of my >>>>>> design >>>>>> space. Get 'em while they last. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> < >>>>> https://www.intersil.com/en/products/space-and-harsh-environment/harsh-environment/transistor-arrays/HFA3096.html >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Let's hope that at least _these_ stay for some time.. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, Gerhard >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, true, there are those. Unfortunately their Rbb' and Ree' are the >>>> pits. >>>> >>>> I just bought Newark's last reel of BFT92s, so we'll be okay for our own >>>> stuff, but I can't use them in custom or licensed designs any more. >>>> >>>> Which is a great pity--fast PNP wraparounds are good for a lot of >>>> things. >>>> >>> >>> Digikey has several reels: >>> >>> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/BFT92215/568-1655-2-ND/763259 >>> >>> >>> You could buy some, put them in a nitrogen cabinet and 10 years down >>> the road less the individual transistors at auction for $5 a pop :-) >>> >> >> They're still available from NXP till November, though I don't know how >> many more wafers they'll actually be processing. >> >> One reel is probably enough for my needs, but this move puts some of my >> customers in a bit of a jam. I just got a call this morning to redesign >> a circuit from a year or two back, and I expect there'll be more. Not >> the sort of new business I'm most fond of. >> >> NXP. What a bunch of morons. >> > >If its any comfort I used a class-D driver IC from another manufacturer >in an unorthodox fashion, as a lab bench device to drive large >capacitive loads fast. Meaning ordinary class-D driver chips won't cut >it. Yesterday a client asked me how to turn this module into a smaller >version and get it into production for other purposes. Needless to say, >this IC has been obsoleted. Harumph! > >Guess we are in the same boat again :-)Given the choice, TI is our preferred vendor, because they tend to keep stuff in production. Conversely, we avoid NXP. I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that demand is too small. TI has some nice class-D amps. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 2018-06-05 09:02, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 07:03:11 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2018-06-05 06:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> On 06/04/2018 06:08 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2018-06-04 09:22, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> On 06/04/2018 12:03 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >>>>>> Am 04.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Phil Hobbs: >>>>>>> BFT92, RIP. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NXP, you lousy bastards, you just took away about a quarter of my >>>>>>> design >>>>>>> space. Get 'em while they last. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> < >>>>>> https://www.intersil.com/en/products/space-and-harsh-environment/harsh-environment/transistor-arrays/HFA3096.html >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's hope that at least _these_ stay for some time.. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, Gerhard >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, true, there are those. Unfortunately their Rbb' and Ree' are the >>>>> pits. >>>>> >>>>> I just bought Newark's last reel of BFT92s, so we'll be okay for our own >>>>> stuff, but I can't use them in custom or licensed designs any more. >>>>> >>>>> Which is a great pity--fast PNP wraparounds are good for a lot of >>>>> things. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Digikey has several reels: >>>> >>>> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/BFT92215/568-1655-2-ND/763259 >>>> >>>> >>>> You could buy some, put them in a nitrogen cabinet and 10 years down >>>> the road less the individual transistors at auction for $5 a pop :-) >>>> >>> >>> They're still available from NXP till November, though I don't know how >>> many more wafers they'll actually be processing. >>> >>> One reel is probably enough for my needs, but this move puts some of my >>> customers in a bit of a jam. I just got a call this morning to redesign >>> a circuit from a year or two back, and I expect there'll be more. Not >>> the sort of new business I'm most fond of. >>> >>> NXP. What a bunch of morons. >>> >> >> If its any comfort I used a class-D driver IC from another manufacturer >> in an unorthodox fashion, as a lab bench device to drive large >> capacitive loads fast. Meaning ordinary class-D driver chips won't cut >> it. Yesterday a client asked me how to turn this module into a smaller >> version and get it into production for other purposes. Needless to say, >> this IC has been obsoleted. Harumph! >> >> Guess we are in the same boat again :-) > > Given the choice, TI is our preferred vendor, because they tend to > keep stuff in production. Conversely, we avoid NXP. >Depends. Decades ago some engineers used the expression "Texan call-off" and I got involved in an urgent redesign because some kind of logamp had suddenly been discontinued.> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that > demand is too small. > > TI has some nice class-D amps. >I'll have to look at them again, ours was from Infineon. Problem is, we need 200V abs max for swing. A company that made it onto my blacklist recently is Broadcom after they obsoleted a whole slew of discretes. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:56:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 06/04/2018 08:40 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>> mandag den 4. juni 2018 kl. 23.42.01 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>> On 4 Jun 2018 14:04:31 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> bitrex wrote... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Should start a s.e.d. fabless semiconductor company and get them made >>>>>> again, China will make whatever you like. You could advertise it as >>>>>> exactly that "The Last Fast PNP" like the Last of the Mohicans or something. >>>>> >>>>> It's be nice to have it available in a SOT-323 SC70 package. >>>> >>>> Maybe you and Hobbs should buy a wafer or two? Then, as time moves >>>> on, package them to suit the era? >>>> >>> >>> digikey has 18000 in stock, $2,835 for 15000 how many wafers can you get for that? >>> >> >> Discrete device wafers are dirt-cheap and low profitability. That's >> why the devices are being phased out. Was anyone besides Hobbs buying >> them? >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >They sell for a lot more than digital transistors or BCX71s, and can't >be much harder to make. Nexperia didn't take NXP's rf transistors or >JFETs, so they're getting rid of them. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsThe EOL of discretes does keep fast circuit design interesting. GaN parts are cheap and fast, but don't come in P-channel! -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: ..> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that > demand is too small.I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation... -- Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt --------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 06/05/2018 12:02 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 07:03:11 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2018-06-05 06:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> On 06/04/2018 06:08 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2018-06-04 09:22, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> On 06/04/2018 12:03 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >>>>>> Am 04.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Phil Hobbs: >>>>>>> BFT92, RIP. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NXP, you lousy bastards, you just took away about a quarter of my >>>>>>> design >>>>>>> space. Get 'em while they last. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> < >>>>>> https://www.intersil.com/en/products/space-and-harsh-environment/harsh-environment/transistor-arrays/HFA3096.html >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's hope that at least _these_ stay for some time.. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, Gerhard >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, true, there are those. Unfortunately their Rbb' and Ree' are the >>>>> pits. >>>>> >>>>> I just bought Newark's last reel of BFT92s, so we'll be okay for our own >>>>> stuff, but I can't use them in custom or licensed designs any more. >>>>> >>>>> Which is a great pity--fast PNP wraparounds are good for a lot of >>>>> things. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Digikey has several reels: >>>> >>>> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/BFT92215/568-1655-2-ND/763259 >>>> >>>> >>>> You could buy some, put them in a nitrogen cabinet and 10 years down >>>> the road less the individual transistors at auction for $5 a pop :-) >>>> >>> >>> They're still available from NXP till November, though I don't know how >>> many more wafers they'll actually be processing. >>> >>> One reel is probably enough for my needs, but this move puts some of my >>> customers in a bit of a jam. I just got a call this morning to redesign >>> a circuit from a year or two back, and I expect there'll be more. Not >>> the sort of new business I'm most fond of. >>> >>> NXP. What a bunch of morons. >>> >> >> If its any comfort I used a class-D driver IC from another manufacturer >> in an unorthodox fashion, as a lab bench device to drive large >> capacitive loads fast. Meaning ordinary class-D driver chips won't cut >> it. Yesterday a client asked me how to turn this module into a smaller >> version and get it into production for other purposes. Needless to say, >> this IC has been obsoleted. Harumph! >> >> Guess we are in the same boat again :-) > > Given the choice, TI is our preferred vendor, because they tend to > keep stuff in production. Conversely, we avoid NXP. > > I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that > demand is too small. > > TI has some nice class-D amps. > >Maybe we could get THAT or somebody to do them. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On 06/05/2018 01:29 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:56:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 06/04/2018 08:40 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> >>>> mandag den 4. juni 2018 kl. 23.42.01 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>> On 4 Jun 2018 14:04:31 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> bitrex wrote... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should start a s.e.d. fabless semiconductor company and get them made >>>>>>> again, China will make whatever you like. You could advertise it as >>>>>>> exactly that "The Last Fast PNP" like the Last of the Mohicans or something. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's be nice to have it available in a SOT-323 SC70 package. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe you and Hobbs should buy a wafer or two? Then, as time moves >>>>> on, package them to suit the era? >>>>> >>>> >>>> digikey has 18000 in stock, $2,835 for 15000 how many wafers can you get for that? >>>> >>> >>> Discrete device wafers are dirt-cheap and low profitability. That's >>> why the devices are being phased out. Was anyone besides Hobbs buying >>> them? >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> >> They sell for a lot more than digital transistors or BCX71s, and can't >> be much harder to make. Nexperia didn't take NXP's rf transistors or >> JFETs, so they're getting rid of them. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > The EOL of discretes does keep fast circuit design interesting. GaN > parts are cheap and fast, but don't come in P-channel! > >Yeah, it's like doing chip design circa 1975--the NPNs are 100 times faster than the PNPs. :( Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 23:18:16 -0400, "tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote:> >"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in >message news:4psbhdloovifoq9s67h0n5s734e374g5vc@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 18:02:47 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 17:40:05 -0700, Jim Thompson >>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>>><langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>>> >>>>>mandag den 4. juni 2018 kl. 23.42.01 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>>> On 4 Jun 2018 14:04:31 -0700, Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >bitrex wrote... >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>Should start a s.e.d. fabless semiconductor company and get them >>>>>> >>made >>>>>> >>again, China will make whatever you like. You could advertise it as >>>>>> >>exactly that "The Last Fast PNP" like the Last of the Mohicans or >>>>>> >>something. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It's be nice to have it available in a SOT-323 SC70 package. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe you and Hobbs should buy a wafer or two? Then, as time moves >>>>>> on, package them to suit the era? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>digikey has 18000 in stock, $2,835 for 15000 how many wafers can you get >>>>>for that? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Discrete device wafers are dirt-cheap and low profitability. That's >>>>why the devices are being phased out. Was anyone besides Hobbs buying >>>>them? >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>>I sure was. And a lot of SOT-89 parts, now gone too. >>> >>>If the wafers are cheap, somebody could bake a crate full of them, >>>jack up the device prices, and do OK. And not annoy a lot of >>>maybe-future customers. >> >> Look into it. Lansdale bought a lot of the rights to Moto chips... >> still selling some I designed 50+ years ago. >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> -- > >Jim, you should post a list of all the chips you designed. > >Regards >There aren't that many... just 18 standard products between 1962 and 1970.... and they are listed on my home page, toward the bottom. At 1970 I fled the corporate political world (I couldn't deal with all the political BS at Motorola... I think I quit 4-times just to force proper engineering decisions) and went to doing virtually all custom... with a few exceptions, like the LVDS chips for Fairchild. (I supported my family at the time... 1970-1977, by running a hybrid line at Dickson Electronics and writing a lot of the course material for ICE... Integrated Circuit Engineering.) At last count there were ~200 custom chips. I'll have to ponder and see if I can devise a non-disclosure way of listing those devices... and what they do functionally... if I can I'll post and announce. In the last five years or so I've tired of chip design... there really isn't anything analog I haven't done before >:-}... so I've hopped into Behavioral Modeling... easy for me since I've done so much circuit work (and my math capabilities, at least up thru Calculus, are superb)... and it's fun, devising functional models which don't divulge any internal IP... a lot like puzzle solving in reverse ;-) I will be updating the "Jim's Secret Sauce" page shortly, renaming it "Behavioral Modeling Gimmicks/Tools/Not sure yet"... with more explanations of how I got there. Watch for it. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
Reply by ●June 5, 20182018-06-05
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:38:27 +0000 (UTC), Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >.. >> I emailed ON and suggested they do some fast PNPs. They replied that >> demand is too small. > >I wondered that the military sector kept calm about the obsolation...Most of my chip designs, transferred to Lansdale, are on the military preferred components list... they seem to love unconditionally stable OpAmps, even if the open-loop gain is only 75dB... though I'm sure the sliding-class-A outputs and 10V/us slew-rates grab their attention as well ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
