On 01/03/2018 01:12, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Hi, all, > > My shiny new (to me) HP 89441A has an analogue video output, but none of > my LCD monitors can sync to it--one says "out of range" and the other > two just sit there sulking. So I think that its vertical sync is too > fast for them.Vertical or horizontal synch mismatch? Most multisyncs I have encountered will play almost anything back to CGA but with some bits lost round the edges and bad pixel fuzziness. You may have been unlucky or there is something odd about the video out from the HP. What does it look like on the scope? FWIW The much older NEC does everything from 640 upwards. But my more recent HP LP2475 claims 800x600 as its lowest working resolution so maybe you do need one that is older and can do 640x480 VGA base rate.> Any recommendations for LCD monitors that can handle Y2K-ish vertical > sync rates?Something off eBay from about the right era perhaps, but I'd be very suspicious that the video out isn't quite what it claims to be. Measure it and compare with known rates that your PC video cards supports. My hunch is that the HP output is classic VGA. -- Regards, Martin Brown
[Semi-OT] Multisync LCD monitors
Started by ●February 28, 2018
Reply by ●March 1, 20182018-03-01
Reply by ●March 1, 20182018-03-01
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote: [...]> I have most of what I want in life. If you want to motivate me, it > will take something quite different from flattery. Try to work out > what might motivate me, what makes me run, why I do things, and what > gets my attention. Just one problem. Even if you guess correctly, I > won't admit it. To make it easier, ask yourself a simple question, > "What problem is he trying to solve"? If you can work that out, the > other parts of the puzzle will easily fall into place.Amazing. Thanks.
Reply by ●March 1, 20182018-03-01
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:38:08 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:> On 02/28/2018 08:33 PM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, 1 March 2018 01:12:20 UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote: > >> Hi, all, > >> > >> My shiny new (to me) HP 89441A has an analogue video output, but none of > >> my LCD monitors can sync to it--one says "out of range" and the other > >> two just sit there sulking. So I think that its vertical sync is too > >> fast for them. > >> > >> Any recommendations for LCD monitors that can handle Y2K-ish vertical > >> sync rates? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Phil Hobbs > > > > Pick one at random and it's sync or swim. > > > > > > NT > > > <sploosh> > > Vanished without a trace. ;)Grin, We use car back up monitors to look at CCD camera video. Would that work? George H.> > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs > > -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal Consultant > ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics > Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > > http://electrooptical.net > http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●March 1, 20182018-03-01
On 2018/02/28 6:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:> On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:20:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> > wrote: > >> <http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/89441-90076.pdf> >> See Pg 7-16. >> The External Monitor connector is a 15-pin connector with >> standard VGA pinout. The External Monitor connector can >> interface with an external, multi-scanning monitor. The >> monitor must have a 25.5 kHz horizontal scan rate, a 60 Hz >> vertical refresh rate, and must conform to EIA-343-A standards. > >> That should work with any VGA monitor. My guess(tm) is: >> 640x400 at 60Hz vertical is >> 400 * 1.05 * 60 = 25.2 KHz >> The 1.05 is the blanking interval. >> >> I suggest you look at what's coming out of the External Monitor >> connector with an o-silly scope. > > That's strange. 600x400 is not a standard VESA mode and is NOT listed > in the typical VGA timing tables: > <http://martin.hinner.info/vga/timing.html> > Also, the vertical sync rates do not go down to 25.5KHz. Skimming the > list, it looks like 640x480 has the lowest horiz sync frequency of > 31.5KHz. > > My 1.05 fudge was off. This calculator produces 24.90KHz for 640x400: > <https://arachnoid.com/modelines/> > > 25.5KHz is something that was used in CGA/EGA arcade game monitors. > Maybe this converter? (Not sure): > <https://www.amazon.com/Paddsun-Converter-Output-Monitor-GBS-8200/dp/B01IBJCAIG> >Great write-up Jeff, your insight is always helpful! We have had a lot of trouble with various versions of the GBS-8200 - in a number of cases it works for a while then turns green or looses sync and this annoys our customers no end. What we do now for interfacing older arcade games to LCD monitors is to run the game for up to a week before releasing it back into the wild, only then do we know the GBS-8200 or whatever else we try is stable enough for prime time. 25.5kHz is only used in EGA series such as Atari Paperboy and others, whereas CGA games were all roughly 15kHz, with earlier games wandering around the standards a bit. I once spoke with an old engineer at Wells Gardner about why they had so many different sync boards for CGA games from the late 70s and he told me that no two games were the same frequency and they had to tweak the design in a number of cases to get their monitors to work reliably with various games. I have yet to find a reliable 'universal' converter, for CGA or EGA arcade games, that comes in under $200USD and works for all games and the various 3:4 VGA LCD monitors. Your mileage will vary! John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Reply by ●March 2, 20182018-03-02
On 03/01/2018 08:37 AM, George Herold wrote:> On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:38:08 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 02/28/2018 08:33 PM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Thursday, 1 March 2018 01:12:20 UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> Hi, all, >>>> >>>> My shiny new (to me) HP 89441A has an analogue video output, but none of >>>> my LCD monitors can sync to it--one says "out of range" and the other >>>> two just sit there sulking. So I think that its vertical sync is too >>>> fast for them. >>>> >>>> Any recommendations for LCD monitors that can handle Y2K-ish vertical >>>> sync rates? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> Pick one at random and it's sync or swim. >>> >>> >>> NT >>> >> <sploosh> >> >> Vanished without a trace. ;) > Grin, > We use car back up monitors to look at CCD camera video. > Would that work? > > George H.Dunno. None of my monitors work, and the oldest of them is from about 2005. I suppose I'll have to hang a scope on it as folks have suggested. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●March 2, 20182018-03-02
On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 10:13:41 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:> On 03/01/2018 08:37 AM, George Herold wrote: > > On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:38:08 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote: > >> On 02/28/2018 08:33 PM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: > >>> On Thursday, 1 March 2018 01:12:20 UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote: > >>>> Hi, all, > >>>> > >>>> My shiny new (to me) HP 89441A has an analogue video output, but none of > >>>> my LCD monitors can sync to it--one says "out of range" and the other > >>>> two just sit there sulking. So I think that its vertical sync is too > >>>> fast for them. > >>>> > >>>> Any recommendations for LCD monitors that can handle Y2K-ish vertical > >>>> sync rates? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Phil Hobbs > >>> > >>> Pick one at random and it's sync or swim. > >>> > >>> > >>> NT > >>> > >> <sploosh> > >> > >> Vanished without a trace. ;) > > Grin, > > We use car back up monitors to look at CCD camera video. > > Would that work? > > > > George H. > > Dunno. None of my monitors work, and the oldest of them is from about > 2005. I suppose I'll have to hang a scope on it as folks have suggested. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs > > -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal Consultant > ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics > Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > > http://electrooptical.net > http://hobbs-eo.comI could ship you one, but they are only ~$15-20 on amazon, probably cheaper for you to order it. (I got some flaky amazon ones, and ended up buying a box full from China on ali-baba. So if it does work, but 'flaky', I'd be happy to ship a good one. It does PAL and NTSC... something like this.. https://www.amazon.com/Dashboard-Monitor-Rearview-Vehicle-Parking/dp/B00X4EPKAY/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520018159&sr=1-4&keywords=backup+monitor But with more stars. :^) George H.
Reply by ●March 2, 20182018-03-02
On 2018-03-02, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:> > Dunno. None of my monitors work, and the oldest of them is from about > 2005. I suppose I'll have to hang a scope on it as folks have suggested.yeah if you do that. we can possibly program our VGAs to the same rate and test whatever random hardware we have on-hand. -- This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
