The Deplorables

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 8:33:40 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

> 
> That's your choice. Between somebody who is described as "erratic" by which they mean that you can't trust a word he says, and somebody who Trump describes as crooked - despite the fact that she's never been convicted of anything, or even bankrupted.

Are you familiar with Travelgate?
> 
> I'm afraid that you are guilty of paying too much attention to what Trump says, and not enough to the fact that he's going to say something different tomorrow.

I do not pay any attention to what Trump says.  Once again you are trying to say what I do and failing.
> 

> 
> And you'd believe him. So much for the Harvard education.
>
Again trying to figure out what  I do and failing as usual.

                                       Dan
 
> -- 
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 12:24:50 PM UTC-4, Frnak McKenney wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 14:40:47 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com <dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 1:33:18 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:10:05 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 11:17:47 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > It's pretty interesting how that came about.  I recently read
> > "Recollections of 92 Years, 1824-1916," by Elizabeth Avery Meriwether,
> > a southern woman who lived through the thick of it.  I was very
> > surprised to read of the Civil War from a Southerner's perspective.
> 
> For another viewpoint, try Eric Foner's "Nothing But Freedom:
> Emancipation and Its Legacy" and (a bit longer and more detailed)
> "Forever Free: The Sory of Emancipation and Reconstruction".
> 
> ( The pulp-and-text-challenged can find an AHTV (C-SPAN3) interview of
>   Foner here:
>   The Civil War: Politics of Reconstruction
>   https://www.c-span.org/video/?401420-1/politics-reconstruction
> )
> 
> One of Foner's key points is the conflict between the plantation owners'
> desperate need for cheap manpower and the ex-slaves' reluctance to work
> under the conditions the former slave-owners wanted: long hours of hard
> labor for little or no pay, and subject to the same kind of punishment
> they had experienced prior to the war.
> 
> 
> Frank McKenney

Thanks -- I listened to the video.  His was a pretty standard description
of /what/ happened and /who/.  Meriwether's was the first account (and a
first-hand account at that) I'd seen of /why/ the Southerners acted as
they did, from the Southern perspective.

Cheers,
James Arthur

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 7:42:17 AM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 11:37:04 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> 
> > Nobody in their right mind could vote for Trump, if they understood how erratic his proclaimed policies actually are.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bill Sloman, Sydney
> 
> And nobody in their right mind could vote for Hillary, if they knew how crooked she is.
> 
> So that is our choice.  Erratic or crooked.
> 
>                                   Dan

Until recently Trump was a registered Democrat, and financial supporter
of Democrat candidates.  There's a reason for that.

Trump is, at bottom, a traditional Democrat with some business and fiscal
sense.  He wants to grow the federal government (which I do not like)
and involve the federal government more deeply in more things (which I
also do not like).  If Hillary weren't running he'd be running as
a Democrat.

So, not my cup of tea, but between an old-fashioned Democrat and a
thoroughly dishonest, corrupt opponent with a dismal track record
and zero qualification, he's an easy choice.

Not having Hillary's cash machine, Trump needs his showmanship-thing to
get the media attention he can't afford to buy.  He has to do it to
win.  But that aside, he's a pragmatic problem-solver, not a kook.

And if he had a 'D' behind his name, almost all these people heaping
vitriol on Trump right now would be heaping it on his opponent.

It's all very tribal.

Cheers,
James Arthur

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 1:04:42 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 8:33:40 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > That's your choice. Between somebody who is described as "erratic" by which they mean that you can't trust a word he says, and somebody who Trump describes as crooked - despite the fact that she's never been convicted of anything, or even bankrupted.
> 
> Are you familiar with Travelgate?

I have second-hand knowledge of it, from someone who had dealings
with that branch of the Clinton cash machine. (How's that for a
small world?)

Rotten as sin.

Cheers,
James Arthur

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 3:04:42 AM UTC+10, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 8:33:40 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > That's your choice. Between somebody who is described as "erratic" by which they mean that you can't trust a word he says, and somebody who Trump describes as crooked - despite the fact that she's never been convicted of anything, or even bankrupted.
> 
> Are you familiar with Travelgate?

I'd never heard of it. Google tells me that White House travel office was a mess when the Bill Clinton took office, but not the criminal mess it initially looked like. Ken Starr couldn't find anything to hang on the Clintons, which strikes me as declaring them to be non-crooks - Ken Starr dug all the dirt he could, none of which was criminal, and had to settle sexual scandal (which isn't).
 
> > I'm afraid that you are guilty of paying too much attention to what Trump says, and not enough to the fact that he's going to say something different tomorrow.
> 
> I do not pay any attention to what Trump says.  Once again you are trying to say what I do and failing.

You may not realise that you are parroting Trump's line on the subject, but few other people with enough assets to be worth suing are silly enough to risk getting sued for slander (by a couple of lawyers) by declaring that the Clintons are crooks. Straw men with no assets are less constrained.

> > And you'd believe him. So much for the Harvard education.
> >
> Again trying to figure out what  I do and failing as usual.

I don't have to figure it out. You are transparently foolish, and foolish enough not to realise quite how transparently foolish you are.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 10:02:00 AM UTC+10, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 1:04:42 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> > On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 8:33:40 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > That's your choice. Between somebody who is described as "erratic" by which they mean that you can't trust a word he says, and somebody who Trump describes as crooked - despite the fact that she's never been convicted of anything, or even bankrupted.
> > 
> > Are you familiar with Travelgate?
> 
> I have second-hand knowledge of it, from someone who had dealings
> with that branch of the Clinton cash machine. (How's that for a
> small world?)
> 
> Rotten as sin.

The White House travel office was a total mess - though probably not rotten as sin - when Bill Clinton came to power. His initial reaction turned out to be over the top, but even Ken Starr had to admit that it wasn't crooked.

One-eyed republican supporters were deeply disappointed that Ken Starr couldn't hang anything criminal on the Clintons, and have been trying to re-write history ever since. 

James Arthur is particularly prone to selective memory.

He's just had Ben Franklin being anti-democracy when when he was actually being anti-monarchy, and exiled, when he was a US Ambassador to France.

Precisely what he has selectively misunderstood in the Travelgate scandal will take some finding, but one can guarantee that he will have got something wrong that will make the Republicans look better, and the Democrats worse.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 9:47:18 AM UTC+10, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 7:42:17 AM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 11:37:04 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > 
> > > Nobody in their right mind could vote for Trump, if they understood how erratic his proclaimed policies actually are.
> > 
> > And nobody in their right mind could vote for Hillary, if they knew how crooked she is.
> > 
> > So that is our choice.  Erratic or crooked.
> 
> Until recently Trump was a registered Democrat, and financial supporter
> of Democrat candidates.  There's a reason for that.

He was buying political influence. Real estate dealers do that.
 
> Trump is, at bottom, a traditional Democrat with some business and fiscal
> sense.  He wants to grow the federal government (which I do not like)
> and involve the federal government more deeply in more things (which I
> also do not like).  If Hillary weren't running he'd be running as
> a Democrat.

And wouldn't have got anywhere. Without the Tea Party putting up even more repulsive alternatives, Trump's vices would have made him a non-starter.

> So, not my cup of tea, but between an old-fashioned Democrat and a
> thoroughly dishonest, corrupt opponent with a dismal track record
> and zero qualification, he's an easy choice.

Trump does have the weakness - that ought to be fatal in a politician - of not sticking to his policies. He contradicts himself regularly. He does seem more likely to end up convicted of some crime or other than does Hillary Clinton - the Democrat equivalent of Ken Starr has yet to go through Trump's affairs.

Trump's recent decision to stop being a Birther, and to admit that Barack Obamah really was born in the US, is typical.

He's James Arthur's idea of of an old-fashioned Tammany Hall Democrat. The Democrats finally managed to kill off Tammany Hall in 1962, but James Arthur is too wedded to history to notice that Donald Trump is a post-Tammany Hall Tammany Hall Democrat.
 
> Not having Hillary's cash machine, Trump needs his showmanship-thing to
> get the media attention he can't afford to buy.  He has to do it to
> win.  But that aside, he's a pragmatic problem-solver, not a kook.

He's a pragmatic liar, willing to say whatever it takes to make a deal. He never was a kook, just a real-estate huckster. His Trump University was a confidence trick, and is still under investigation for fraud, though he does seem to have been able to bribe his way out of one prosecution.
 
> And if he had a 'D' behind his name, almost all these people heaping
> vitriol on Trump right now would be heaping it on his opponent.

He'd still have set up Trump University, and seen it shut down as a fraud.
 
> It's all very tribal.

And James Arthur has decided that Trump is part of his tribe, and is happy to lie for him.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 10:36:04 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

> > Again trying to figure out what  I do and failing as usual.
> 
> I don't have to figure it out. You are transparently foolish, and foolish enough not to realise quite how transparently foolish you are.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

You are right.  You do not have to figure it out.  You can just continue to be wrong.

                                        Dan

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 1:26:33 PM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:53:00 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:
> 
> >Jim Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >> I've stated before, I grew up in a mixed community, post WWII VA
> >> housing, 1/2 acre minimum lots, heritage immaterial, always assisting
> >> the black family two houses up rounding up their turkeys if it rained
> >> ;-)
> >
> >Why can't turkeys get wet?
> >
> >
> 
> They _drown_ swallowing the rain... dumbest creatures (domesticated
> turkeys) on the face of the earth ;-)

Huh, I don't know about domesticated turkeys.  
I saw this nature program about wild turkeys,
and they came off as being fairly smart.  
(The males became a bit aggressive when in rut.)

George H. 
> 		
>                                         ...Jim Thompson
> -- 
> | James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
> | Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
> | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
> | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
> | Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
> | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
>              
> "The person who is trustworthy in very small matters is also 
> trustworthy in great ones; and the person who is dishonest in 
> very small matters is also dishonest in great ones."
>                                                -from Luke 16:19-31

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 11:48:18 PM UTC+10, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 10:36:04 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> 
> > > Again trying to figure out what  I do and failing as usual.
> > 
> > I don't have to figure it out. You are transparently foolish, and foolish enough not to realise quite how transparently foolish you are.
> 
> You are right.  You do not have to figure it out.  You can just continue to be wrong.

Dan does like to think I'm wrong. One of his  many transparently foolish mistakes. It's not that I'm never wrong - just not often enough to keep Dan happy, or plausible.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney